Arsene Wenger

The number of supporters voicing their opposition to a: Wenger or b: his decisions, is becoming larger, either that or they are just a lot louder. With Alan Smith making five points about Wenger losing the plot - not that any of these are new to people on this board - I wonder, in light of Van Persie's no! and subsequent backtracking, whether he has lost the dressing room, or is losing it.

I gave Wenger credit when he turned the blip around earlier in the season. If a new manager came in, he'd have been praised for stopping the rot and the decision to axe Wenger would have been regarded a good one. Wenger should have gotten equal credit for doing the same, yet that good run needed to continue. Now we are just back to August.

I can't remember if it was on this board or chatting to someone but if you look at the big teams around us: United, Chelsea, whomever, there is lots of evolution. Ferguson's side, in particular his midfield, his tactics, are adaptive. The constants are success - and himself, even the backroom staff go. Same with Chelsea. Mourinho brought a lot of Portugeezers with him and most left when he did but other managers came in (some awful - Scolari, some awesome - Hiddink), it didn't - mostly - to the results on the field.

Wenger's Arsenal is stale. When is the right time to change? The middle of the season is as good a time as any. We wait until the end of the season and we fall trap to 'oh let's give him the window,' before you know it we then judge him at the end of the season. Wenger has given me some great memories, but in the words of Janet Jackson, what has he done for you lately?

This isn't really a Wenger out thread, but whenever the big man does something, good or bad, post it here. We'll see come the end of the season whether it veers toward the clueless or the clever. With six days left in the transfer window I'm expecting to put negative: no season-boosting transfers in, but for now.

Last weekend:

Negative: Game-changing substitution, but not the good kind.

Negative: Three losses on the bounce.

Positive: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

''no season-boosting transfers in, but for now.''

Thierry Henry ??

''Negative: Game-changing substitution, but not the good kind.''

Oxlade was sick during the week and felt a cramp in his calf.. and no it is not a lie.. Wenger isnt that stupid

My point would be saying...

The guy fucked up..slightly at the weekend,now if the ox is run down or carrying a slight injury then fair enough...but what I won't like to see is a player like the ox being replaced with somebody whom clearly is not cutting it at the mo and has not been for some time...
Now would I be right in thinking he should just offload AA spend a buck or two and buy in and show those who swan around eg walcott that your place is not safe....
A rocket up someone's arse is never a bad thing....

As for Wenger he has had quite a nightmare to deal with this season...injuries have been an absolute bastard,some have been self inflicted eg jack...
Now Wenger does and has done what has been right for the club for as long as he has been here..calling for his head is not a good idea.....

But the rocket needs to be deployed on him too...

ralph avedikian wrote:''no season-boosting transfers in, but for now.''

Thierry Henry ??

''Negative: Game-changing substitution, but not the good kind.''

Oxlade was sick during the week and felt a cramp in his calf.. and no it is not a lie.. Wenger isnt that stupid

Thierry Henry is a stop gap, for only two months, and he's already missed one game from a potential eight or nine, one massive game. He won't be around for the run in, so, while it's a psychological boost, it's not going to matter much after February.

As for the substition, even if the player did feel cramp and had to go off, it would make much more sense to bring on Benayoun, not Arshavin. Our left side was vulnerable enough as it was, without bringing on a player notorious for not putting in a defensive shift.

ralph avedikian wrote:''no season-boosting transfers in, but for now.''

Thierry Henry ??

''Negative: Game-changing substitution, but not the good kind.''

Oxlade was sick during the week and felt a cramp in his calf.. and no it is not a lie.. Wenger isnt that stupid

Henry is here for what, two months? He's played what? a game? Yea, so far really season-boosting. It's a temporary measure. It's a loan. It's not season-boosting. It's not going to get us fourth.

You seem to be confusing a bad game-changing substitution to mean the exit of Oxlade. It's not (just that). It's the introduction of Arshavin.

Last weekend positive: game changing substitution, Yennaris for Djourou.

Anyway, I have felt for a while that the club needs a change but I don't really want it to happen unless there is a shake up at board level first. Because I actually think Wenger has done a great job with the resources available. If a new guy were to come in with £80m to spend, I think this squad could win the title. But I wouldn't trust the current board to pick a new manager let alone back him. So until the board changes, better the devil you know. Arsène isn't an idiot, he has just failed to invent the wheel twice, which is no real surprise.

Hisham El Mawan wrote:Positive: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

In what context is that a positive for Wenger, currently? I see the Ox as a positive for Arsenal.

Christopher Flanagan wrote:Last weekend positive: game changing substitution, Yennaris for Djourou.

Anyway, I have felt for a while that the club needs a change but I don't really want it to happen unless there is a shake up at board level first. Because I actually think Wenger has done a great job with the resources available. If a new guy were to come in with £80m to spend, I think this squad could win the title. But I wouldn't trust the current board to pick a new manager let alone back him. So until the board changes, better the devil you know. Arsène isn't an idiot, he has just failed to invent the wheel twice, which is no real surprise.

It's one of those nastly little things would we be happy if the board said enough is enough?
I am so lost on thinking about it I just don't...

Its obvious something needs to change, and I think everyone, even Wenger, can see that. The only ones who can't are the board. Chris is 100% correct.

Perhaps in the world of fantasy, but the whole board is not just going to leave, so it's better to be realistic, imo.

I think it will change this summer. The share lockdown is over, and there will be movement. I wouldn't be surprised to see a total rejig.

I think expecting the board to completely change is like saying let's get Messi

and even in the event there is a change at boardroom level we're still stuck with a manager well past his prime

Well, we don't really know whether he is past his prime or he has had restrictions placed on him, do we? I mean, we can speculate but it's just that for now.

I meant to post this earlier, but it was announced on Canal+ that Wenger was PSG's first choice and that he turned down a huge offer from them last month. That means he's turned down massive offers from Real & PSG. Not really sure how I feel about that.

And obviously we're not 'stuck' with Wenger if the board changes; the new board can replace him.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/23/arsene-wenger-arsenal-mutiny-fans


When someone writes Wenger's biography in 10 yrs or so, it will be interesting to know what exactly went on this past summer.
Wenger came as close as he ever has ( in his cryptic manner) of stating he wanted to splash out some cash in either transfer fees and/or salary, but the board didn't want to.


David Hytner makes a relevant point in these paragraph:

....The fans want, somehow, to get back to the old level, when the team were regular title contenders. Deep down, they wonder whether the squad is good enough, which undermines Wenger's belief that things will be OK when his many injured and unavailable players return. And in order to drive the upturn, there is the growing feeling that fundamental change is required.

The plain fact is, though, that it will not come about easily as it is not only Wenger but the chief executive, Ivan Gazidis, and the majority shareholder, Stan Kroenke, who are wedded to the club's economic model, which is against high-risk spend-to-accumulate offensives.

Those who feel that Wenger should jump or be pushed from his post ought to be careful what they wish for. Kroenke and Gazidis would seek a replacement with similar philosophies and to work in a similar framework, and not only because of the incoming financial fair play regulations. In Wenger, they may already have the best.....

Christopher Flanagan wrote:Well, we don't really know whether he is past his prime or he has had restrictions placed on him, do we? I mean, we can speculate but it's just that for now.

I meant to post this earlier, but it was announced on Canal+ that Wenger was PSG's first choice and that he turned down a huge offer from them last month. That means he's turned down massive offers from Real & PSG. Not really sure how I feel about that.

Restrictions on him to make baffling subs on a continuous basis? Restrictions on him to not remedy glaring deficiencies in the team's set up? Restrictions on him to actually study the opposition and make pre-game alterations? He's had many years to get it right.

Well, yes, restrictions on his ability to buy and sell as he wishes. I don't agree with any of the rest of that stuff, it's hyperbole ('a continuous basis'? Really? Doesn't study opposition? How do you know?)

And yes, he's had many years to get it right and for the majority of those years he did. Surely you don't think it's a coincidence that we've had a total change of approach in the market since 2005?

Alan Dawson wrote:

Hisham El Mawan wrote:Positive: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

In what context is that a positive for Wenger, currently? I see the Ox as a positive for Arsenal.

My apologies, I completely forgot that Chambo was signed by a different manager than Wenger.

He doesn't study opposition. He sets his own team up his way with a disregard to whether it's United or Swansea or Bolton. If he studied opposition, like I said, he'd have pre-game alterations to the Plan A Arsenal. Even Fabregas said there are never any tactics meetings. Just the same thing every week.

And yes, when duff substitutions occur a *lot* they are continuous.

He's got it right in the majority of years? Trophy cabinet says differently.

Alan Dawson wrote:

Christopher Flanagan wrote:Well, we don't really know whether he is past his prime or he has had restrictions placed on him, do we? I mean, we can speculate but it's just that for now.

I meant to post this earlier, but it was announced on Canal+ that Wenger was PSG's first choice and that he turned down a huge offer from them last month. That means he's turned down massive offers from Real & PSG. Not really sure how I feel about that.

Restrictions on him to make baffling subs on a continuous basis? Restrictions on him to not remedy glaring deficiencies in the team's set up? Restrictions on him to actually study the opposition and make pre-game alterations? He's had many years to get it right.

I don't think one baffling sub constitutes "a continuous basis".
Gervinho, Arteta, and Mertesacker being brought in after the departure of Fabregas and Nasri and the realization that our CBs weren't good enough surely demonstrates an ability to remedy deficiencies.
What manager does not study the opposition and make pre-game alterations?
I'm pretty sure Wenger had it right within his first few years here. The trophies he won should be proof.

Hisham El Mawan wrote:

Alan Dawson wrote:

Hisham El Mawan wrote:Positive: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

In what context is that a positive for Wenger, currently? I see the Ox as a positive for Arsenal.

My apologies, I completely forgot that Chambo was signed by a different manager than Wenger.

Oh, by that logic, negative: Park Chu Young.

Alan Dawson wrote:

Hisham El Mawan wrote:

Alan Dawson wrote:

Hisham El Mawan wrote:Positive: Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.

In what context is that a positive for Wenger, currently? I see the Ox as a positive for Arsenal.

My apologies, I completely forgot that Chambo was signed by a different manager than Wenger.

Oh, by that logic, negative: Park Chu Young.

I don't think you can make that kind of statement about Park since he's only played two games.

Hisham El Mawan wrote:

Alan Dawson wrote:

Christopher Flanagan wrote:Well, we don't really know whether he is past his prime or he has had restrictions placed on him, do we? I mean, we can speculate but it's just that for now.

I meant to post this earlier, but it was announced on Canal+ that Wenger was PSG's first choice and that he turned down a huge offer from them last month. That means he's turned down massive offers from Real & PSG. Not really sure how I feel about that.

Restrictions on him to make baffling subs on a continuous basis? Restrictions on him to not remedy glaring deficiencies in the team's set up? Restrictions on him to actually study the opposition and make pre-game alterations? He's had many years to get it right.

I don't think one baffling sub constitutes "a continuous basis".
Gervinho, Arteta, and Mertesacker being brought in after the departure of Fabregas and Nasri and the realization that our CBs weren't good enough surely demonstrates an ability to remedy deficiencies.
What manager does not study the opposition and make pre-game alterations?
I'm pretty sure Wenger had it right within his first few years here. The trophies he won should be proof.

Those trophies have dust on them now.