Rate our current squad

Will.sheng wrote:

Sami Rockfeller wrote:Here are some of Song's stats in comparison to Cesc's this season. Surprisingly both of them have very similar numbers.
http://news.arseblog.com/2012/03/liverpool-1-2-arsenal-by-the-numbers/cesc-song/

And about Song's defensive performances this season, I feel he could do better. He is often seen losing possession within our own half and often leaves a gap in our midfield when he wanders forward. Not that I don't want him to make offensive runs but if he feels the need to go for it so often, we should move him into a slightly higher position and have someone else play DM.

Thats also the problem tho...who else can play DM as effectively as Song? he has made so much progress in such a short space time and owns that position. I wouldnt want him to be moved forward coz he is so effective at breaking up play and linking the attacks. If he attacks, shouldnt someone just ahead of him, ala Ramsey fall back a bit? I dont know, but i am all for the way Song plays. There are always gonna be gaps at the back, so there should also be players around to cover.

probably why he functions well with arteta in the side. think he would do well with jack in the side and someone like gotze ahead of them. bringing in someone like m'vila wouldnt really stop that though because both can play a bit of football. As long as each understand when one is back the other has to push forward and vice versa, it is fine. look at how yaya has developed with another dm around him

Song, Wilshere and a more creative type??? hmmm, sounds familiar!

I don't think Song has been brilliant defensively as of late and he does seem prone to some pretty loose passes... but tactically speaking, when he gets the balance right, it's incredibly dangerous. Both with Wilshere and Arteta he doesn't really play as a straight DM, and considering how often our various opponents like to drop deep and defend in two banks of four, that extra bit of creativity he offers can be incredibly important. When we're having trouble breaking teams down, by coming forward he offers another angle- or if somebody tracks back with him, they have nobody left upfield to pose any threat.

Agree that in all but the most difficult matches, we wouldn't want another midfielder taking most of the defensive responsibilities...

...if Diaby could actually stay fit I do truly believe he and Song could be brilliant together. And yes, I realize that I sound like a madman for even suggesting that!

"I don't think Song has been brilliant defensively as of late and he does seem prone to some pretty loose passes... "


This is my biggest concern with Song right now. I think we can forget about him being just a no-nonsense defensive shield because he we clearly need his creativeness going forward as he seems to be the only this season capable of creating something out of nothing. Plus, I don't think that will ever be his role, not under Wenger. We created two chances in the 2nd half at Anfield, both chances were started/assisted by Song with incisive passes. It's not as if his assists are from dead balls or simple cut backs to tap in, either. He has that license granted to him by Wenger and is why Arteta has done a more disciplined job than I think we all expected from him.

But the sloppy passes in our own half... they have to stop. Losing the ball in the final 3rd attempting something is acceptable but giving the ball away with a nothing/casual pass in our own half, that is unforgivable. He has to cut those out.

He still has room to improve defensively as well, of course. His form throughout January and February wasn't good enough but it will take more than 1 player sticking rigidly to DM to improve our overall defensive play.

I think Arteta is playing the role pretty much exactly the same as the way Jack played it last season. I had expected that Arteta would play CAM or even wide forward at times, so have been very surprised to see him replace Jack so well.

I don't think Arteta is playing that way because Song is playing more attacking than normal. Most of the time, when Song plays these through balls, he has the whole opposition ahead of him bar a couple of strikers, so it is not as if he is advancing forward leaving us short at the back.

I think at this point it's safe to say that the team has demonstrated that we don't need Fabregas and Nasri anymore. Yes, they were both very skilled players, but I believe a lot of people will agree with me when I say that they didn't have winning mentalities. Without, we're now grinding out games, coming from behind, and fighting until the end a lot more often. With van Persie as captain, as well as the vast improvement in players like Song and Koscielny, we've finally acquired that gritty side of the game that we've lacked in the past few seasons.

however we undeniably miss the quality that fabregas in particular bought to our side. We are finally finding a new way to play which is effective, but we can not gloss over the fact that we still lack that quality in the middle of the park

I don't know about saying that Fabregas didn't have a winning mentality. But his head did go down at times when the going got tough.

Fabregas was an exceptionally skilled footballer but he wasn't captain material. I think we would have more to show(trophies) if the armband had been bestowed upon RvP earlier. If it only weren't for his injuries.

Jonathan Prendergast wrote:I don't know about saying that Fabregas didn't have a winning mentality. But his head did go down at times when the going got tough.

And it's rubbing off at barca , only this time he can't blame not enough quality around him.
Them being behind Real shows that. Even with Messi in the form of his life couldn't help Fabregas.

Justin Chew wrote:

Jonathan Prendergast wrote:I don't know about saying that Fabregas didn't have a winning mentality. But his head did go down at times when the going got tough.

And it's rubbing off at barca , only this time he can't blame not enough quality around him.
Them being behind Real shows that. Even with Messi in the form of his life couldn't help Fabregas.

I have too noticed this...it seams when he lacks a mentality to pick himself up and be a part of the game when things are not going well he retreats into a bubble of self destruction and zero work rate....it's understandable in some ways but not surely when your on a pitch of your 'hearts' team...
This was the only thing that used to wind me up in his years at arsenal...true he had some commanding performances but more often it would be a head down almost sulking look about him....
As I said its understandable in some ways but when you were captain it is not....I wonder what barca would make of this or even how they would deal with it...I am sure they would not be so willing to keep letting it just be brushed over....10 points behind in the league they need everybody right now....

Yes we are grinding out results but lets not pretend - we are only in with a shout for 3rd, or even 4th, because Spurs and Chelsea have dropped alot of points as well.

We have nowhere near the fluency this season that we had with Fabregas and Nasri in the team and the football we are playing is nowhere near as "pretty" either.

I realise Fabregas would be almost impossible to replace directly, we still need more flair though, especially on the wings.

Under Wenger, Arsenal will continue to play attractive football (this season being something of an exception) - this new team will evolve a style of its own.

Meshaal wrote:Yes we are grinding out results but lets not pretend - we are only in with a shout for 3rd, or even 4th, because Spurs and Chelsea have dropped alot of points as well.

We have nowhere near the fluency this season that we had with Fabregas and Nasri in the team and the football we are playing is nowhere near as "pretty" either.

I realise Fabregas would be almost impossible to replace directly, we still need more flair though, especially on the wings.

Under Wenger, Arsenal will continue to play attractive football (this season being something of an exception) - this new team will evolve a style of its own.

To be fair it's not like we have gone backwards or forwards with or without him in the team...we are still in a place we usually are come the end of the season and the cup runs have come in about the same...

The team will develope and have to develope accordingly to players we have and hopefully recruit...

No longer do you see a large chunk of our play through the middle...

Michael Foster wrote:

Meshaal wrote:Yes we are grinding out results but lets not pretend - we are only in with a shout for 3rd, or even 4th, because Spurs and Chelsea have dropped alot of points as well.

We have nowhere near the fluency this season that we had with Fabregas and Nasri in the team and the football we are playing is nowhere near as "pretty" either.

I realise Fabregas would be almost impossible to replace directly, we still need more flair though, especially on the wings.

Under Wenger, Arsenal will continue to play attractive football (this season being something of an exception) - this new team will evolve a style of its own.

To be fair it's not like we have gone backwards or forwards with or without him in the team...we are still in a place we usually are come the end of the season and the cup runs have come in about the same...

The team will develope and have to develope accordingly to players we have and hopefully recruit...

No longer do you see a large chunk of our play through the middle...

In terms of results, we probably haven't lost too much ground, compared to last season. However, in terms of quality of players and football (when times were good) on the pitch I think we have gone backwards.

But I agree with you, this team will develop its own style to rival any of Wenger's previous teams, especially with a couple of quality additions in the summer.

Meshaal wrote:

Michael Foster wrote:

Meshaal wrote:Yes we are grinding out results but lets not pretend - we are only in with a shout for 3rd, or even 4th, because Spurs and Chelsea have dropped alot of points as well.

We have nowhere near the fluency this season that we had with Fabregas and Nasri in the team and the football we are playing is nowhere near as "pretty" either.

I realise Fabregas would be almost impossible to replace directly, we still need more flair though, especially on the wings.

Under Wenger, Arsenal will continue to play attractive football (this season being something of an exception) - this new team will evolve a style of its own.

To be fair it's not like we have gone backwards or forwards with or without him in the team...we are still in a place we usually are come the end of the season and the cup runs have come in about the same...

The team will develope and have to develope accordingly to players we have and hopefully recruit...

No longer do you see a large chunk of our play through the middle...

In terms of results, we probably haven't lost too much ground, compared to last season. However, in terms of quality of players and football (when times were good) on the pitch I think we have gone backwards.

But I agree with you, this team will develop its own style to rival any of Wenger's previous teams, especially with a couple of quality additions in the summer.

Do you not enjoy rosicky orchestrating play? Fluid counter attacks that we missed. Players doing more one touch football now. The standards raised by our invincibles.
I missed that and now it's all coming back. With cesc and Nasri I feel we slowed down play a lot and pass the ball too much. And only one focal point.

Now we offer more freedom for players and more direct football. Almost total football that wenger very much desired. More to come when wilshere is back.

Meshaal wrote:

Michael Foster wrote:

Meshaal wrote:Yes we are grinding out results but lets not pretend - we are only in with a shout for 3rd, or even 4th, because Spurs and Chelsea have dropped alot of points as well.

We have nowhere near the fluency this season that we had with Fabregas and Nasri in the team and the football we are playing is nowhere near as "pretty" either.

I realise Fabregas would be almost impossible to replace directly, we still need more flair though, especially on the wings.

Under Wenger, Arsenal will continue to play attractive football (this season being something of an exception) - this new team will evolve a style of its own.

To be fair it's not like we have gone backwards or forwards with or without him in the team...we are still in a place we usually are come the end of the season and the cup runs have come in about the same...

The team will develope and have to develope accordingly to players we have and hopefully recruit...

No longer do you see a large chunk of our play through the middle...

In terms of results, we probably haven't lost too much ground, compared to last season. However, in terms of quality of players and football (when times were good) on the pitch I think we have gone backwards.

But I agree with you, this team will develop its own style to rival any of Wenger's previous teams, especially with a couple of quality additions in the summer.

On the contrary, I think the team has improved their football. The exit of Nasri and Fabregas has seen our style become less tippy-tappy and more direct. Not only that, we don't have a single focal point anymore. Our attack comes from anywhere, be it a cutting pass from midfield, a cross or cut-in from the wings, or a lobbed ball from deep (like we've become accustomed to seeing Song do). Hell, we're taking more shots from outside the box. The team is also defending as a unit, and best of all, does not give up. We've won the last four games in the EPL after going behind, as I'm sure you know. Now would this have happened if we had players with the mentalities of Nasri or Fabregas in the team? They were very skilled players, as well as very important to our old system, but we have moved on and adapted without them. And as a result, I think this team is much stronger than last season's.

Not arguing with any of that - will judge the mental strength at the end of the season though.

All i'm saying is that this team is yet to develop its own distinct style.

I never thought Nasri was particularly central to our style. The utter bullshit in the press at the start of the season, when they almost univerally (whether broadsheet, tabloid or other) stated that our two best players were leaving was clear bull to anyone capable of an honest assessment. We were losing the most talented player in the league and another player with three years of patchy form and a less than super attitude.

On the other hand, van Persie had already started confirming in the second half of last season that he was the best striker in the league, the only problem was how to adapt to the loss of Fabregas.

This season has confirmed that our fitness levels need to be good otherwise we're not efficient enough going forward and too leaky at the back. We also can't cope without full-backs, no surprise there. But the players that came to the fore are hardly unheralded.

Perhaps it took Arsene too long to realise that Rosicky was unquestionably the only player in our squad who could play that no.10 role and even then he's not consistently playing as far forward as Fabregas, but breaking from the midfield very well. His defensive efforts are far greater than Fabregas or Nasri. Most Arsenal fans seemed to forget he was a very good player, but it makes complete sense that he has a unique skill set in this squad. He has a decade of experience playing for a good international side and in the CL. I remember him putting in a very good performance against us in 2002 when we played Dortmund away in the CL.

I don't think even the press truly understand what our problems are, when you read something like this from SI about Arshavin's departure:

Arshavin's departure with a view to a permanent summer move will be overshadowed by the force of the collision with Tottenham, but it is a significant symbol of the club's gradual decline and creeping depression. A little bit of hope has left with him, because he was one of the few remaining pedigree players. His excellence was in the past, but at least it was proven. There was a chance, however thin, that he might find what he has lost.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20120225/arshavin/#ixzz1pN8CXAwV

What good is the possibility of doing something good, when sides at this level need consistency. We spent two years excusing his pathetic physical condition because he was capable of something from nothing, which was barely true after his first 12 months. If there wasn't room for him to play a central no.10 position in the squad then basically he wasn't much use to us because he made us more vulnerable down the flanks and allied to Fabregas' less than perfect physical condition made our defensive efforts flat from the front of the team.

Nothing has been more important to this recent revival than the pure physical effort put in. They are athletes and should not need it to be inculcated that they have to run their guts off. It has been a pleasure to see them bust a gut in recent matches. The match against Newcastle was a gradual strangulation. Perhaps a year ago they would've scored a goal on the break in the second half but they were denied time on the ball to break this time, then if you hit a side with wave after wave of attack like we did, it's only a matter of time, despite our best efforts to mess it up. It wasn't a surprise to hear Alan Davies joke that they must be on drugs!

Oh I completly agree that our style is more what I would say is what we want to see...I too belive we seam to have done away with the trillion passes with no end product and I prefer this new look...in one way to what I was saying we have not gone back nor made huge progress its only been a season and it will get better....just glad we did not crumble with those two gone....and in all fairness is it me or does it seam another 2 amazing pieces of transfer by Wenger?!?! If we get the 'prince' and maybe another it will be a huge turnaround in a season....

Oh and just to add arry soon to be Houdini wants hazard....

Dream on saggy bollock chops...dream on...

Spot on John. Couldn't disagree with a single word there.