Current Top 5 Managers in the World

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Post by Zaid Derweesh on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:05 am

Any suggestions? What with all this Wenger criticism (and I don't exclude myself), it's probably worth thinking about what managers are genuinely better than Wenger; have a better standing, have had more success, and are viewed with more respect. I don't know how to come up with this list. One thought was to list the clubs who would NOT hire Wenger immediately, were he available.

Frankly, it's a short list. Here goes:

1) Man United (Ferguson)
2) Barcelona (Pep)
3) Real Madrid (Mourinho)
4) ...

Thoughts?

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Post by danan.sonokun on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:45 am

I genuinely think Guus Hiddink can do better than Wenger, in terms of short term success, given he has money to spend that Wenger doesn't want to. Hiddink is a better tactician and he would probably win us the Champions League

Although I think talks about 'Wenger losing it', etc. is absolute bollocks. If Wenger had the same amount of money as ferguson and mourinho we would have won a few Champions League's and Premier League's

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Post by Evan Mullins on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Yeah, you can't really argue that he isn't a top, top manager. But the game is changing and he isn't changing with it.
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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:02 pm

1) Alex Ferguson
2) Arsene Wenger
3) Jose Mourinho
4) Guus Hiddink
5) Pep Guardiola

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Post by John Foxall on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:24 pm

In terms of achieving with limited resources, the more obvious candidates are managers like Jurgen Klopp, Rudi Garcia and Unai Emery.

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Post by Jonathan Prendergast on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:18 pm

Guus Hiddink can achieve with limited resources.

He got PSV to the semi-final of the Champions League.

He took South Korea to the semis of the world cup.

I'm not sure he could have achieved what Wenger did in his first 10 years at Highbury, maybe, but I think he is probably overall a better coach than Wenger.
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:48 pm

It's probably worthy of note that Real wanted Wenger ahead of Mourinho and PSG wanted Wenger ahead of Ancellotti. I'm not saying that really means anything but it is interesting nonetheless.

Also, as for 'Wenger hasn't moved with the modern game', of you can show me a manager who has got beyond the group stages of the CL a decade running, whose name isn't Arsène Wenger, I'd be interested to hear who that is. Mourinho and Ferguson are probably the closest, right?

Wenger may not be a world beater but what he has done with the resources he has had is pretty remarkable.

nb I'm not saying I think we should persist with him forever more or owt, just that objectively speaking he is still one of the best.
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:50 pm

And let's not hide Hiddink's various and many failures. He is a great manager but it's not like he is unblighted by near misses like Wenger.
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:52 pm

In fact, the only really remarkable thing Hiddink has won is the European cup and that was nearly 25 years ago. His failures are probably more notable than Wenger's.
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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:04 pm

Christopher Flanagan wrote:It's probably worthy of note that Real wanted Wenger ahead of Mourinho and PSG wanted Wenger ahead of Ancellotti. I'm not saying that really means anything but it is interesting nonetheless.

Also, as for 'Wenger hasn't moved with the modern game', of you can show me a manager who has got beyond the group stages of the CL a decade running, whose name isn't Arsène Wenger, I'd be interested to hear who that is. Mourinho and Ferguson are probably the closest, right?

Wenger may not be a world beater but what he has done with the resources he has had is pretty remarkable.

nb I'm not saying I think we should persist with him forever more or owt, just that objectively speaking he is still one of the best.
Can't agree more! Excellently said. It was only a year ago when Wenger won the best manager of the past decade award, and that period included the trophy drought years. I don't really like such stupid awards (starting from the Ballon d'Or), but it does say something about Wenger. I'd say the two most respected managers are Alex Ferguson and Wenger. My top 5 would be:
Alex Ferguson
Wenger (even that is debatable, depends on what you are looking at, I can't really say SAF could have switched stadiums and kept United competitive, afterall he does have a 30m player on the bench)
Mourinho
Guardiola (I'd like to see him manage a team that doesn't include the best players in the world)
Hiddink
Klopp and Blanc have a long way to go before they are regarded as one of the best.

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Post by ralph avedikian on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:36 pm

1) Fergie
2) Wenger
3) Pep
4) Mourinho
5) ..hiddink?

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Post by Jonathan Prendergast on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:59 pm

Christopher Flanagan wrote:In fact, the only really remarkable thing Hiddink has won is the European cup and that was nearly 25 years ago. His failures are probably more notable than Wenger's.

Extremely unfair characterisation of Hiddink's career.

Not that I don't admire that you can make one of the best ever coaches sound pathetic
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:15 pm

What else has he won of note? An FA Cup? For a man who has managed Holland, Real Madrid, Valencia, Chelsea, it's not a massively impressive haul, is it?

I don't denigrate his achievements with the middleweights of World Football, but of Wenger getting Arsenal to the a final & a semi of the CL isn't an achievement per se, then neither is that.

Wenger has had a markedly more successful career than Hiddink and it's as simple as that, really. Both in terms of trophies won and consistency of results with under-resourced teams. That in itself doesn't make Hiddink a bad manager; he is obviously very good. But for the amount people prosthelitise Hiddink, he has done remarkable little, particularly in domestic football.
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:17 pm

And obviously there was the Euro 96 debacle. The worst Holland side in living memory.
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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:27 pm

People also seem to forget what Wenger has done in terms of changing the game and bringing all the class players over the years. That itself is not exactly a trophy, but as a foreigner with no previous connection to any of the English clubs whatsoever, that was enough to win me over as a fan, and no, he hadn't won anything back then, so I'm not exactly a glory hunter or a plastic fan.

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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:34 pm

He won the double in his first full season!
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:35 pm

Not that I care why you support Arsenal. I don't think anyone could accuse Arsenal fans of being glory hunters.
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Post by Mike York on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:42 pm

Christopher Flanagan wrote:Wenger may not be a world beater but what he has done with the resources he has had is pretty remarkable.

Can't agree more. Arsenal have grown so much under him and some fans seem to forget that. I read just this morning that Real Madrid are going to come in for him again this summer.

Top five off the top of my head would probably be...

1) Ferguson
2) Hitzfeld
3) Mourinho
4) Wenger
5) Hiddink or Pep probably
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Post by Samritpal Singh on Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:48 am

1) Pep
2) Mourinho
3) Ferguson
4) Klopp
5) Mazzarri

I'm not counting Wenger in it. He is my favorite manager of all time. I also like Mircea Lucescu alot. Excellent manager. Not forgetting Bielsa and Unai Emery (both haven't prove themselves yet but are good managers.) Rafael Benitez, Frank Riijkard, Antonio Conte are all good managers too, always overshadowed by the big team managers.
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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:43 am

I just meant that Man City for example are trying to be a footballing brand by spending millions. That's what they said in 2009 or something. Wenger won Arsenal fans all over the world.

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Post by Sami Rockfeller on Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:49 am

Rudi Garcia is also pretty good.
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:23 am

Trappatoni should probably be near the top of any list, really. Perhaps more appropriate for an all time greats list but he has done good work with Ireland (albeit playing dour football). He has two European Cups, three UEFA cups, two Cup Winners' Cups, a bunch of domestic cups and league titles in Italy, Germany, Portugal and, er Austria.

Interestingly, Ferguson will join him as the only coach to have won all European trophies if they win the Europa League this year.
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Post by Alan Dawson on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:28 am

For 'current' top five managers, form should be taken into account. So I'd agree with John and Samritpal's nominations. Wenger shouldn't really in it

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Post by Michael Foster on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:34 am

I think he should and to be honest I would not have fergie up as my top manager...
It's quite good and possibly an easier job if you inherit a shit hot bunch of kids as a good core of the team and a shot load of cash...fergie has had a big amount of flops in transfers,he may have won a lot but it does not always count for everything
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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:40 am

That is a bit of a glib interpretation of what Ferguson has done. You don't have 30-35 years at the top by inheriting one bunch of talented kids once. What about what he did at Aberdeen? Or his second CL winning side? What about the gamble of trying to win 'with kids'?
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