Arsenal v Bayern Munich

^This, all I know is i don't want us to end up like Liverpool since they sacked Benitez. They've spent a fuck load of money and had 3 different manager's and the result is they've gone nowhere, if anything, they've regressed and are worse now than they were when Benitez got the sack... Many of their fans now regret ever wanting him out, very much a case of be careful what you wish for here...

We need a clean break from Wenger. I don't think he should get a seat on the board or anything like that. The whole club needs a new, fresh start.

As for being worried about a new manager fucking up, that's obviously understandable, but you can't know if you don't try. What we do know for sure is that nothing looks like it's going to improve under Wenger, and we have 6-7 years of evidence to back that up.

So it's either stick with what we've got, that is to say, have no hope of improving, or try something new which might not work out, but at least offers us some hope of things changing for the better.

Arsene Wenger and Ferguson are the exceptions, in regards to managerial longevity. We've been lucky to have a manager last so long, but that doesn't make it the norm and Ferguson is the only one to have consistent success in the same role at a big club. It's time for a significant change.

We will never have another manager that lasts as long as Wenger has. As Alex says, Wenger and especially Ferguson are exceptions to the rule, freaks. Moyes is the next in line in terms of longevity at a club.

I also think we might need a fresh break from Wenger. He could pick his next job really, despite our current situation, I'm sure PSG after Ancelotti or a big club would love him as a director of football or something. Mourinho will leave Real in the summer and Wenger has been courted by them in the past. He could then return to the club after that job and he would definitely be welcomed back. But for now, the club needs fresh ideas and fresh eyes.

And we also need fresh signings in the summer but no point in going there just yet, mainly because we won't make the right ones, but also because we have to make do with what we have and manage them better. There's no way a team with as many internationals as us should be this pathetic at defending. It's embarrassing.

I guess we still have our favourite trophy left to play for, the 'top 4 cup'. Which I feel is also beyond us.

But as for last night, we were just beaten by a much better team. I had no hopes for us winning over two legs but I did have some hope going into last night that we could maybe pull out a classic performance from somewhere but once we went behind it was game over. They were better than us in every department and obviously we gave them the customary couple of goals to help them on their way.

The gap between us and Europe's elite is growing and we have been lucky we have been seeded 1st these last couple of seasons or avoided the group Chelsea had otherwise we may not have made it this far.

Bayern's wage bill is also roughly the same as ours. Different leagues and different situations, they don't have to compete with clubs spending a shit load more than them and in fact are the team in Germany who outspend their rivals by a huge distance, but it still shows how inefficient we are with our budget.

They signed intelligently last summer, but that just reinforced a team that already operated as a proper team. It was impressive to see just how well they attacked and above all defended together. It was like they had an extra man on the field, they were that much better than us.

In contrast, we left our defence looking exposed. Mert is not a guy you want to be exposed. He used to good for Germany precisely because he had no decisions to make, all he did was sit at the back of their two banks of four and make clearances from hopeful crosses. He was slow to react several times last night and Vermaelen's confused positioning and instinct to take up more central positions stuck out too. Most of all, when Bayern counter-attacked, Arteta and co were simply bypassed, whereas Martinez and Schweinsteiger got back into position with impeccable timing before we had a chance to construct a counter-attack. We never had the numbers and in any case that Dante fella dealt with pretty much everything, what a CB he looked.

We've become so easy to play against, it's damning of Wenger's inaction against a tide of mediocre form and embarrassing cup exits over the past half dozen years. If it wasn't for his hubris and the board's weakness, there'd be no question of his leaving this summer. The worst case scenario, that he actually stays, could still come true.

Pretty much all the foreign Arsenal fans on this board and others must have turned up since Wenger arrived. They seem to equate changing manager with taking a risk, yet we wouldn't get anything done in life if we weren't prepared to take risks. Equally, so what if we change manager two or three times within a number of years. It happens, precisely because football clubs decide to keep looking for the right manager.

I think a part of the problem is that even the better players in our team are not quite good enough to take on the big names with a few exceptions like Wilshere or Cazorla may be. Its not as if Bayern ran us over in the midfield, in fact we dominated the possession for quite a large chunk of the match and passed around the ball well, but simply weren’t good enough to carve out the openings even when we had things our way, I don’t know how much of that is down to us not clicking as a team.

This could be a problem for the new coach that is, in case Wenger leaves, kind of like it has been for Rodgers at Liverpool.

John Foxall wrote:They signed intelligently last summer, but that just reinforced a team that already operated as a proper team. It was impressive to see just how well they attacked and above all defended together. It was like they had an extra man on the field, they were that much better than us.

In contrast, we left our defence looking exposed. Mert is not a guy you want to be exposed. He used to good for Germany precisely because he had no decisions to make, all he did was sit at the back of their two banks of four and make clearances from hopeful crosses. He was slow to react several times last night and Vermaelen's confused positioning and instinct to take up more central positions stuck out too. Most of all, when Bayern counter-attacked, Arteta and co were simply bypassed, whereas Martinez and Schweinsteiger got back into position with impeccable timing before we had a chance to construct a counter-attack. We never had the numbers and in any case that Dante fella dealt with pretty much everything, what a CB he looked.

We've become so easy to play against, it's damning of Wenger's inaction against a tide of mediocre form and embarrassing cup exits over the past half dozen years. If it wasn't for his hubris and the board's weakness, there'd be no question of his leaving this summer. The worst case scenario, that he actually stays, could still come true.

Pretty much all the foreign Arsenal fans on this board and others must have turned up since Wenger arrived. They seem to equate changing manager with taking a risk, yet we wouldn't get anything done in life if we weren't prepared to take risks. Equally, so what if we change manager two or three times within a number of years. It happens, precisely because football clubs decide to keep looking for the right manager.

Even though I don't disagree, I still wish there was a way to get rid of Silent Stan first, replace him with Usmanov or anyone who appears to actually give a shit, and see what happens there. If nothing changes (for the better), then I'd be the first to wish Wenger good luck at PSG or Madrid. Right now, I feel like the reason for our decline may lie higher up than Wenger. Of course, there still remains the matter of actually coaching the fucking defense. Anyway, the problem with this is that it requires a lot more patience than many of us have left right now.

Very realistic and fair post by Arse2Mouse

Arsenal 1-3 Bayern Munich: Not with a bang, but with a whimper

If the loss to Blackburn on Saturday was an example of Arsenal’s lack of commitment, then Tuesday night’s humbling loss to Bayern Munich was a stark reminder that this team is also desperately lacking in quality. The Emirates stadium was designed to be a monument to top quality football. It was built to help solidify Arsenal’s place among the best clubs in the world. How ironic that it was the stage for two demoralising cup exits in the span of four days. The latest of which may have been the last time the beautiful new ground hosts a Champions League match for some time.

Arsenal’s Champions League adventure ended not with a bang, but with a whimper. While the tie is not officially over until the final whistle blows at the Allianz Arena on March 13th, there is little reason to believe that a comeback is in the offing. Arsenal didn’t lose the first leg of this tie because they lacked heart, or conviction, or desire. We were beaten because we were inferior. Bayern Munich outclassed Arsenal over 90 minutes and even the usually evasive Arsene Wenger had to acknowledge that there was “a difference of quality in their display compared to ours.”

What Tuesday night’s loss made me realise is that I’ve totally misjudged this Arsenal side. It’s not that I believed they were world beaters, but I had been labouring under the misapprehension that they were a quality side struggling with consistency. Now I see how badly I’ve overrated them. Bayern Munich are among the best in Europe and the way they comfortably handled us on our ground is a clear measure of how far we’ve fallen from the top of European football.

Many supporters will console themselves with the knowledge that few teams in Europe could beat this Bayern side. But as far as I’m concerned, that’s an unacceptable excuse. If Arsenal expect to be taken seriously as a Champions League team, then we should have a squad that is capable of competing with whomever we draw. Being beaten by Bayern is not unforgivable. Being swatted aside with relative ease in our shiny new stadium is hard to take. And it’s hard to take because the decision has been made that this squad is strong enough as it’s currently constituted.

We have every right to expect our team to fare better than this against any opposition. Arsenal managed a draw and a win at the Emirates against arguably tougher Barcelona teams. And those results were achieved by mostly disappointing Arsenal sides. But the erosion of quality at the club seems to have well and truly caught up with us. We now find ourselves neither able to focus enough to dispatch lesser opposition, nor possessing the quality to handle the top sides. On Tuesday night we got a first hand look at what a potential Champions League winner looks like, and we saw just how far we’ve fallen from that standard.

There were so many players found wanting on Tuesday night that it hardly seems necessary to name them. Unlike disappointments of the past, there can be little argument that this was essentially our strongest XI. Left-back aside, the manager had every player to choose from and the players he chose were overmatched. It’s fair to point out that Thomas Vermaelen’s struggles deputising at left-back were a huge problem in this match. But the fact that he was the only player available for the position is every bit a crisis of our own making.

What this match made me realize is that the players we consider mediocre aren’t even that good. And the players we consider quality are mostly mediocre. In the humdrum existence of a midtable Premier League side, players like Lukas Podolski and Mikel Arteta and Per Mertesacker may seem like world-class talents. But when confronted with a truly talented opponent like Bayern, it’s easy to see that they are far from what’s required if we ever hope to be the best.

The best players are daring and confident in the face of any opposition. But most of Arsenal’s players hid from the spotlight on Tuesday night. According to opta stats tweeted by @orbinho, Mikel Arteta completed 29 passes to Per Mertesacker. All game long the midfield and defence passed the ball back and forth between one another, unsure of how to attack Bayern. We lacked the cunning, the courage and the class to do it. We failed to muster a shot on target in the first half, and only managed a goal thanks almost entirely to comical refereeing and even worse goal-keeping.

Because we love Arsenal, we love the players who play for Arsenal. We view them like our children and want to protect them from criticism. Much like a parent who doesn’t want to admit their child is stupid, we do not want to admit that our players aren’t good enough. But just like there are many stupid children, there are many poor Arsenal players.

We get plenty of excuses for the paucity of talent in the squad. Unfortunately, it’s now clear that the excuses have done nothing but hold us back. Think of how many times we’ve been told that Abou Diaby would be a massive player for us if he could ever stay fit. Think of the “gamble” Arsene took on him this summer when he decided to sell Alex Song and not buy a replacement. Well Diaby is fit now, and he wasn’t even selected on Tuesday night. And our lone replacement for the best striker in the Premier League was sat beside him on the bench as well.

We can defend players that we know probably aren’t what we need, but defending them only serves to reinforce the reality of our new position on the footballing totem pole. Praise Giroud or Diaby all you want, but the manager didn’t believe in them enough to start them Tuesday night. And the likes of Ramsey and Arteta and Mertesacker and Vermalen and Podolski and Szczesny were a distant second best to the men wearing Bayern Munich shirts. Only when we acknowledge that we don’t truly possess the quality players we need, can we accept the reality of our situation. For all our financial success, we have become a second tier team on the pitch.

I feel badly for Jack Wilshere. His energy and passion is exceeded only by his skill. In him you see the pattern of Cesc Fabregas’ career potentially being played out again. Cesc loved Arsenal and treated Arsenal fans to some absolutely magnificent football. But he was never surrounded by the proper pieces to achieve the success he craved. Loyalty may have ultimately driven him back to Barcelona, but it wouldn’t be outrageous to suggest that frustration with failure may have contributed to his departure. Hopefully the same won’t be true of Jack.

So where do we go from here? We are a team adrift, and what remains of this season is a truly dismal proposition. From now until May, Arsenal will be reduced to chasing a top four finish in the Premier League. Aside from a trip to Sp*rs, the demoralizing second leg against Bayern, and a visit from United, there are no big fixtures left on the calendar. There are no nights of cup magic. Nothing on the schedule to fill the ground with 60,000 rabid supporters. Just visits from Everton, Reading, Norwich and Wigan. Not exactly the glamour of Barcelona, AC Milan or Real Madrid, let alone a cup final.

It’s another lost season. Most of the intrigue and all of the fantasy gone by February. You can forgive the supporters if the interest wanes. Hopefully the players will find a way to stay engaged just long enough to sneak back into fourth place.

– ES

rather than start another just going to carry this over here....



Bayern Munich
Wed 13th Mar 19:45 Allianz Arena

i know this is not until next week but the posts have been late if not match day some games....so its early for a change lol!!

ribery is out of the game through injury...Schweinsteiger,Boateng both out thrught suspension...


bonus!!

I read on twitter that Wilshere and Szczesny are out, but I couldn't find any articles saying as much. Anyone have a link to this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/11/arsenal-jack-wilshere-bayern-munich

there's the link about wilshere's injury doubt, a big blow for any chances we had of a turnaround if he doesn't play..

He has been confirmed out for three weeks.......shit!!!!!!

hope for the best while singing along to always look on the bright side of life..

Fuck the CL, he will be absent for three weeks from the PL? Hello UEFA Cup

He will miss one or possibly two PL games. Swansea away which may be tricky, and Reading at home, could be a lot worse.

It's match day!!


Well let's see if we can put together our game and pull this off!!!

I don't think we will go through. No chance! But if we manage to win with a solid display, it will still be good for the team. I'd take any 1-0 2-1 victory over them.

We will get crushed again. I just don't want more injuries for our key players.

everyone has a chance.....

I feel I shouldn't even bother tonight, this team and manager let the fans down badly this seasom, nevermind the last game. I just can't believe we find ourselves in a position where we have to score atleast 3 goals away against one of the strongest teams in the world at the moment. As soon as I see a hint of lack of effort I'm not gonna bother myself (I probably will though umfortunately:()

Come on people!! Let's end the season with a bang..this to go and our run in the league....feeling good...it can be done...they owe it to us...can they deliver!!


Fuck yer!!


COYG!!!

LINE-UPS-

Bayern Munich: Neuer, Lahm, Van Buyten, Dante, Alaba, Javi Martinez, Gustavo, Muller, Kroos, Robben, Mandzukic.

Subs: Starke, Shaqiri, Rafinha, Pizarro, Contento, Gomez, Tymoschuk.


Arsenal: Fabianski, Jenkinson, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibbs, Arteta, Rosicky, Ramsey, Walcott, Giroud, Cazorla.

Subs: Mannone, Diaby, Vermaelen, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Coquelin, Arshavin, Gervinho.

dropped TV is a big shout for me...

COME ON ARSENAL!!