Bradford vs Arsenal

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Post by deepgrg on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:35 am

well done to bradford .... dear wenger n the arsenal board i want my club back.

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Post by Jason Morrison on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:36 am

the day wenger decides to take the COC seriously, we suffer our most embarrasing loss and frankly our lowest point of the season. Why always us...Buck up though guys, cause its only gonna get worse...


Last edited by Jason Morrison on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Michael Foster on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:36 am

All I can say is clearly we can see where are weaknesses are.....and a bank book needs to come out in January......
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Post by ralph avedikian on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:39 am

Wenger played our strongest team except for Arteta. He DID take it seriously, he can't do much more than that. It is totally up to the players who are pure shit. It has been a while since I didn't have a favorite player at Arsenal but I really can't find someone who really is fighting for Arsenal. Absolutely shit.

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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:59 am

ralph avedikian wrote:Wenger played our strongest team except for Arteta. He DID take it seriously, he can't do much more than that. It is totally up to the players who are pure shit. It has been a while since I didn't have a favorite player at Arsenal but I really can't find someone who really is fighting for Arsenal. Absolutely shit.

As much as I want to, I can't blame Wenger for this. He took the competition seriously, and put out our best players. It's all on them. I hope they realize that they're all shit, and get their act together. But they won't, and I hope they don't, because if Wenger still deserves to be manager, he'll replace every single one of those fuck-ups except for Wilshere and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Those two, as well as Szczesny and Cazorla, are the only players I can somewhat forgive today.

And I hope they're not stupid enough to put up another one of those "Choose your MOTM" pages on the website after the disgrace we all witnessed tonight.

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Post by Michael Schatzky on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:03 am

ralph avedikian wrote:Wenger played our strongest team except for Arteta. He DID take it seriously, he can't do much more than that. It is totally up to the players who are pure shit. It has been a while since I didn't have a favorite player at Arsenal but I really can't find someone who really is fighting for Arsenal. Absolutely shit.
Disagree. There are problems at this club from top to bottom.
There is something very wrong when you take your first team to Bradford and they play like that.
Wenger's squad, Wenger's tactics, the buck stops with him.
Something is irrevocably broken. Most of these players are good enough that they would/could do well at other clubs in other situations. But they are all at Arsenal and suddenly they are shit? They are not trying? I don't buy it.
Why is Ramsey a starter when he's not ready? Why is Gervinho playing CF? Why is the Ox getting so much time when he's clearly not ready?
The rot is at the top . Time for Wenger to go.

It's time to buckle up and support your club. Support Arsenal, because by the example of what happened at Liverpool, it's going to be a rocky ride.

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Post by Alex Hadjicharalampous on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:05 am

So glad I missed this. Can't blame the players any more in my opinion, they're a completely different group to the ones we had 4-5 seasons ago and yet the same problems remain. We need a new manager.

What a disgrace.
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Post by ralph avedikian on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 am

Michael Schatzky wrote:
ralph avedikian wrote:Wenger played our strongest team except for Arteta. He DID take it seriously, he can't do much more than that. It is totally up to the players who are pure shit. It has been a while since I didn't have a favorite player at Arsenal but I really can't find someone who really is fighting for Arsenal. Absolutely shit.
Disagree. There are problems at this club from top to bottom.
There is something very wrong when you take your first team to Bradford and they play like that.
Wenger's squad, Wenger's tactics, the buck stops with him.
Something is irrevocably broken. Most of these players are good enough that they would/could do well at other clubs in other situations. But they are all at Arsenal and suddenly they are shit? They are not trying? I don't buy it.
Why is Ramsey a starter when he's not ready? Why is Gervinho playing CF? Why is the Ox getting so much time when he's clearly not ready?
The rot is at the top . Time for Wenger to go.

It's time to buckle up and support your club. Support Arsenal, because by the example of what happened at Liverpool, it's going to be a rocky ride.


I agree that there are many problems at our club and that Wenger's tactics are to be questioned, but for God's sake even with my Granny as manager today we should have won the game, simply because our players are 200 times better. Wenger doesn't have to outclass Bradford for us to win the game. Today is all on the players for me.

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Post by Michael Schatzky on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:25 am

ralph avedikian wrote:
Michael Schatzky wrote:
ralph avedikian wrote:Wenger played our strongest team except for Arteta. He DID take it seriously, he can't do much more than that. It is totally up to the players who are pure shit. It has been a while since I didn't have a favorite player at Arsenal but I really can't find someone who really is fighting for Arsenal. Absolutely shit.
Disagree. There are problems at this club from top to bottom.
There is something very wrong when you take your first team to Bradford and they play like that.
Wenger's squad, Wenger's tactics, the buck stops with him.
Something is irrevocably broken. Most of these players are good enough that they would/could do well at other clubs in other situations. But they are all at Arsenal and suddenly they are shit? They are not trying? I don't buy it.
Why is Ramsey a starter when he's not ready? Why is Gervinho playing CF? Why is the Ox getting so much time when he's clearly not ready?
The rot is at the top . Time for Wenger to go.

It's time to buckle up and support your club. Support Arsenal, because by the example of what happened at Liverpool, it's going to be a rocky ride.


I agree that there are many problems at our club and that Wenger's tactics are to be questioned, but for God's sake even with my Granny as manager today we should have won the game, simply because our players are 200 times better. Wenger doesn't have to outclass Bradford for us to win the game. Today is all on the players for me.
Yeah we really should have won and it is on all of them.
The problem , for me, is it's getting more difficult to pin down the problems -is the the tactics, the player's poor effort, the lack of quality players, their inability to institute the manager's tactics, the inability of the manager to inspire - and scare- the players?
It's at a stage that it is become - as people are throwing around twitter right now- "untenable" for Wenger to continue, because it is going nowhere .

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Post by ralph avedikian on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:26 am

Yeah there are a LOT of questions that don't have answers at this club, and I don't think we can judge Wenger until we really know what is happening behind the scenes.

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Post by Michael Schatzky on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:36 am

ralph avedikian wrote:Yeah there are a LOT of questions that don't have answers at this club, and I don't think we can judge Wenger until we really know what is happening behind the scenes.
Yeah ,with all that I said above in mind , I can't see anyone else coming in and doing better, especially in the short term. And he has done well with what he's had to work with monetarily, until now.
And there is no one at the club who is in a position ( except Kroenke ) to "force" Wenger out. So in all likelihood he is around until he decides to go anyway.

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Post by Marko Maksimović on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 am

Michael Schatzky wrote:
ralph avedikian wrote:Yeah there are a LOT of questions that don't have answers at this club, and I don't think we can judge Wenger until we really know what is happening behind the scenes.
Yeah ,with all that I said above in mind , I can't see anyone else coming in and doing better, especially in the short term. And he has done well with what he's had to work with monetarily, until now.
And there is no one at the club who is in a position ( except Kroenke ) to "force" Wenger out. So in all likelihood he is around until he decides to go anyway.

Agreed... But still can't help but feel absolutely disgusted by what the Club is going through. Shit run, no-one showing any drive bar a select few. Under-performing, lacking confidence, not combining well, not dispatching teams they should be dispatching. Surely they can only go up from here? Or is the typical season collapse happening earlier than usual?
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Post by Mario on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:48 am

The decline set in from 2007-08 and ever since then we have seen our best players leave and not replaced properly. The last couple of seasons the quality of departure rose and the players brought in didn't. In some cases, they weren't even replaced. Wenger didn't choose to sell those players (he wanted Nasri to run his contract down but was overruled) and I doubt players brought in were first choice (Santos? Park?). There is a lack of leadership from the top, an owner who doesn't care as long as he makes profits and I feel that Wenger has taken a lot of shit because of them.

However, after years of never losing to a lower league team, we went and lost to a League 2 team. This was Arsene's 'Wrexham' moment. We're now a team that lacks balance, unity, a game plan, motivation and quality. Does Wenger still have the dressing room? Do they play for him? And if they do, why are their performances so fluctuating? He bought these players and has played them consistently and in positions that don't seem to suit half of them. Better players have gone to other clubs for less than we spent on Gervinho, for half the wages of Chamakh, so we can't blame everything on lack of funds. It's just gone really stale.

It won't happen now and I wish it didn't end like this but this summer it probably should.

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Post by Chris Chan on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:28 am

People say we have a good squad, but do we?

From our starting First XI, I would say apart from Jack, Santi and possibly Sagna, I can't say that anyone is irreplaceable. Within the club, some are, simply because we have an even worse squad in reserves, there is just a lack of real quality throughout the side. The side is just distinctly average and I would be surprised if we finish top 4.

What is even worse is that this team doesn't look like they have even played together at times, passes are going one way and the runner in completely the opposite direction. There is no cohesion, no unity and very little organisation, that is why when we concede one, we always get all at sea and lose any shape we may have had.

We are also getting out worked far too often. Tonight Bradford wanted it more, they were going whole heartedly into challenges, giving their absolute all to close down the man or chase after a loose ball. There were so many occasions when the same couldn't be said about our team tonight. But this isn't the first time this season, Norwich, Schalke, Swansea, Everton, the list goes on and on. It's all well and good saying that the players are hurting just as much and they want it just as much, but there is no evidence of it, no grit, no determination and no bottle under pressure. Before we have had the quality to sneak into the top 4, but continue to sell your best players and replace them with garbage and this is the result.

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Post by Brett Davis on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:16 pm

Mario Leontiou wrote:The decline set in from 2007-08 and ever since then we have seen our best players leave and not replaced properly. The last couple of seasons the quality of departure rose and the players brought in didn't. In some cases, they weren't even replaced. Wenger didn't choose to sell those players (he wanted Nasri to run his contract down but was overruled) and I doubt players brought in were first choice (Santos? Park?). There is a lack of leadership from the top, an owner who doesn't care as long as he makes profits and I feel that Wenger has taken a lot of shit because of them.

However, after years of never losing to a lower league team, we went and lost to a League 2 team. This was Arsene's 'Wrexham' moment. We're now a team that lacks balance, unity, a game plan, motivation and quality. Does Wenger still have the dressing room? Do they play for him? And if they do, why are their performances so fluctuating? He bought these players and has played them consistently and in positions that don't seem to suit half of them. Better players have gone to other clubs for less than we spent on Gervinho, for half the wages of Chamakh, so we can't blame everything on lack of funds. It's just gone really stale.

It won't happen now and I wish it didn't end like this but this summer it probably should.

I disagree that Wenger has lost the dressing room and that our players are not motivated. I believe the real problem with this current team is a game plan and quality going forward. Yes, quality players have underperformed and this may signal a lack of unity and motivation, but I believe our tactics/player positioning have undermined our efforts more. Gervinho as a central striker has hopelessly failed, Ramsey has played poor as a winger, Carzola has been sitting far too deep in the midfield, and Podolski has been rather isolated on the wing. I believe Wenger is a very good manager with respect to offensive tactics, but this year has faced more of a challenge and time required to get things right. Again, I believe he still has the dressing room and the players have the spirit to overcome these struggles. Soon we will piece this together and find some rhythm going forward and become a formidable team to face with our sound defense. My only fear is that this very tough loss to take will damage some of the players' psyche and delay growth into the potential this squad has.

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Post by Michael Foster on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:45 pm

One thing I want to know is why does Wenger constantly play players out of place...

If we need a winger buy a winger.....
If we need a striker buy a fucking god dam striker...
It's like watching a fucktard play football manager...."I see the striker in defence"

This result for me sums up so much wrong with the club...every fucker involved is to blame...and if they won't accept the blame then piss off....

This match finally pushed me over the edge with this club....sick and tired of the shit we have to endure....cannot wait to hear what silent Stan has to say....oh that's right he won't give a fuck on his new ranch.....
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Post by smoreno on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:04 pm

Add +1 won game against WBA without Ramsey and +1 games lost with him starting... if the team starts with 10 men is harder to win...

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Post by vyom.chaudhary on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:05 pm

well if your players are under performing and arent motivated,whose fault is that?not a single player,not even wilshere gave 100% last night.i remember wilshere loosing the ball in the midfield so many times.we were not at all up to the task,motivated yesterday.time and time again we have seen this team being complacent against the lower teams.this is a new low.
clearly wenger is not able to get the best out of this team. however bad they are,they arent not half as bad as the results.

and one more thing i really dont like is the same excuses,reasons wenger gives in press.i have never seen him accepting the blame for the defeat or questioning his team's efforts.never.

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Post by Chris Chan on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:27 pm

I heard Wenger saying that he couldnt fault the effort of the players last night. If that is the case, surely that is an admission that the team he is built is shit. He put a near first string side out there and we got beaten (deservedly so) by a league two side! Fuck off with your bullshit excuses, that performance was unacceptable, another in a long line of yet another disappointing season.

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Post by Steve Dawson on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:04 pm

Not familiar with his time at Cologne, but did Poldi play centrally there or out wide like Wenger is playing him? He seems totally wasted out wide and I can't work out why he never finishes a game, think he's only played 90 mins once since he arrived! Does he really get that tired so quickly? I know the Premier League is superior to the German league but surely he would've acclimatised to the pace in 4 months?! Or is he just unfit? Maybe he just gets knackered from tracking to defend all the time.

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Post by Jenks1981 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:56 pm

Steve Dawson wrote:Not familiar with his time at Cologne, but did Poldi play centrally there or out wide like Wenger is playing him? He seems totally wasted out wide and I can't work out why he never finishes a game, think he's only played 90 mins once since he arrived! Does he really get that tired so quickly? I know the Premier League is superior to the German league but surely he would've acclimatised to the pace in 4 months?! Or is he just unfit? Maybe he just gets knackered from tracking to defend all the time.

I've been wondering the same, I think he played centrally for Cologne but someone would have to confirm that. Podolski has been one of the biggest disappointments for me, he has offered next to nothing in build up play, drops central then passes square or dribbles and loses the ball. Rarely gets into the box or shows any skill to go past a man. He has a decent finish which is probably why he should be played in the middle but playing as part of a front three, you would expect running off the ball or finding space to be something he does when we have possession, he doesnt. Gibbs must be tearing his hair out playing with him, made plenty of runs last night but rarely gets utilised out wide, why is that? We constanly gave Sagna the ball but not Gibbs, who was in equally good positions, when he was passed to, no one was out wide to support him. Our left hand side has been so weak recently its untrue. At least Ramsey was hugging the line wide right and making himself an outlet, even if he regularly makes the wrong decision in possession, Podolski literally has offered nothing for weeks now other than a couple of good strikes, not enough for a £100,000 a week player.

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Post by Mike York on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:19 pm

Mario Leontiou wrote:There is a lack of leadership from the top, an owner who doesn't care as long as he makes profits and I feel that Wenger has taken a lot of shit because of them.

The blame has to be spread around as everyone has a role but I do agree that Wenger has taken a lot of shit from the media/fans on behalf of the board. I wish we would replace players adequately and renew contracts that deservse renewing but I believe the board are too tight. I also wish we would stop persisting with players like Gervinho, playing Ramsey on the right, and have a plan B etc but Wenger seems to be fixed on his vision.

And do people really think Wenger will come out and give his players a bollocking in interviews? Some managers may do, very few but some, but Wenger has never been that type of manager. He has openly said before he sometimes lies in post-match interviews in order to deflect attention and blame from his players publicly. In private surely someone whether Wenger or Bould or someone else has been having words with players and letting them know an improvement is a must, but not out in the open. Some players like Arteta have come out and said they know we haven't been doing well. So the squad knows. It's not as if Wenger pats them on the back after games like last night and they skip towards the sunset happy with their performance like everything is dandy.
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Post by Chris Chan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:29 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20689836

"Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger says his side should not be embarrassed by their Capital One Cup quarter-final defeat at League Two Bradford."

Well the fans bloody well are. How can you defend the utter rubbish they played yesterday? Out fought, out worked and beaten by a league two side, an absolute shambles and hugely embarrassing!

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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:18 am

Chris Chan wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20689836

"Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger says his side should not be embarrassed by their Capital One Cup quarter-final defeat at League Two Bradford."

Well the fans bloody well are. How can you defend the utter rubbish they played yesterday? Out fought, out worked and beaten by a league two side, an absolute shambles and hugely embarrassing!

I think to say we were out fought and and out worked is unfair. Bradford were very well organized defensively and we lacked the cutting edge to break them down. This is no excuse, of course, but again I don't think our players lack motivation and the drive to win games. When you lose a game like this its easy to say we were complacent, lazy, didnt care, etc. but give credit to Bradford first off. Then place blame on the quality of the play rather than the fight and work that went behind it

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Post by Chris Chan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:24 am

We were absolutely out fought, they won pretty much every 50-50 ball, you could see our players simply wern't up for it and were going through the motions for most of the match

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