Bradford vs Arsenal

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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:14 am

They didn't win every 50-50 ball. Our sloppy touches and passing in the midfield made it seem that way. Also, plenty of the times they did win a 50-50, it was their forward flicking the ball onto nobody and giving us back possesion

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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:43 am

Mike York wrote:
Mario Leontiou wrote:There is a lack of leadership from the top, an owner who doesn't care as long as he makes profits and I feel that Wenger has taken a lot of shit because of them.

The blame has to be spread around as everyone has a role but I do agree that Wenger has taken a lot of shit from the media/fans on behalf of the board. I wish we would replace players adequately and renew contracts that deservse renewing but I believe the board are too tight. I also wish we would stop persisting with players like Gervinho, playing Ramsey on the right, and have a plan B etc but Wenger seems to be fixed on his vision.

And do people really think Wenger will come out and give his players a bollocking in interviews? Some managers may do, very few but some, but Wenger has never been that type of manager. He has openly said before he sometimes lies in post-match interviews in order to deflect attention and blame from his players publicly. In private surely someone whether Wenger or Bould or someone else has been having words with players and letting them know an improvement is a must, but not out in the open. Some players like Arteta have come out and said they know we haven't been doing well. So the squad knows. It's not as if Wenger pats them on the back after games like last night and they skip towards the sunset happy with their performance like everything is dandy.

Yeah, I get the feeling that a lot of people on this board don't realize that tact and being media-savvy is a big part of being a manager. No decent manager goes out there and says, "This team is a goddamn disgrace, they fucking suck, if I could I'd replace them all, etc". Things like that will absolutely destroy a team that's already not playing very well. Do you really think that Wenger is not absolutely steaming with rage right now? Do you really think that he didn't yell his ass off in that locker room and probably on the way back home? Coming out and saying something mild like "it's a disappointing result, but you can't fault their effort" after losing to BRADFORD is just a smart way of saying "you just wait, those worthless fucks are going to feel my wrath, but let's face it, they suck" without actually letting people directly know that he's pissed. Wenger may not be on a roll right now, but he's not an idiot. I'm sure he's pulling people aside and telling them to shape up or they'll be shipped out. But right now, he's really just working with what he has, which is obviously far from good enough. If this transfer window ends without any improvement, then we can all start freaking out.

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Post by Mario on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:38 am

Hisham El Mawan wrote:

Yeah, I get the feeling that a lot of people on this board don't realize that tact and being media-savvy is a big part of being a manager. No decent manager goes out there and says, "This team is a goddamn disgrace, they fucking suck, if I could I'd replace them all, etc". Things like that will absolutely destroy a team that's already not playing very well. Do you really think that Wenger is not absolutely steaming with rage right now? Do you really think that he didn't yell his ass off in that locker room and probably on the way back home? Coming out and saying something mild like "it's a disappointing result, but you can't fault their effort" after losing to BRADFORD is just a smart way of saying "you just wait, those worthless fucks are going to feel my wrath, but let's face it, they suck" without actually letting people directly know that he's pissed. Wenger may not be on a roll right now, but he's not an idiot. I'm sure he's pulling people aside and telling them to shape up or they'll be shipped out. But right now, he's really just working with what he has, which is obviously far from good enough. If this transfer window ends without any improvement, then we can all start freaking out.



I understand why Wenger does what he does and he has always shielded players from criticism. And we never know what is said in the changing room/training ground the next day. So even if it were sometimes frustrating I always accepted Wenger's comments at full time.

But I don't agree with 'No decent manager' will criticise his teams publicly. Mourinho has done it, Ferguson has done it. The best managers pick a moment and do hang them out to dry. You can't do it often and you can't really pick on individuals, but every now and then it might do them good to hear their manager furious in public as well as private. I don't know, I don't know how our players react to these things. Not that I care at the moment, most of them aren't good enough to be at the club and others who are aren't performing like they're good enough.


Arseblog said today -

His public defence of his players has been a strength down the years, right now it’s a weakness. A humiliating defeat last night brought the same platitudes from the manager when, perhaps, some public acceptance that it’s just not good enough to perform like that could help.

I don’t expect him to crucify individuals but when we lose to a team in the 4th division I don’t want to hear about our effort or that the pitch was slippery. It was that way for both teams. Maybe in private he’ll let the players know what he thinks but it would ease some of the frustration to air some of our dirty laundry in public. It might not be the Arsenal way but the Arsenal way isn’t working right now.

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Post by Michael Schatzky on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:50 am

Mario Leontiou wrote:


I understand why Wenger does what he does and he has always shielded players from criticism. And we never know what is said in the changing room/training ground the next day. So even if it were sometimes frustrating I always accepted Wenger's comments at full time.

But I don't agree with 'No decent manager' will criticise his teams publicly. Mourinho has done it, Ferguson has done it. The best managers pick a moment and do hang them out to dry. You can't do it often and you can't really pick on individuals, but every now and then it might do them good to hear their manager furious in public as well as private. I don't know, I don't know how our players react to these things. Not that I care at the moment, most of them aren't good enough to be at the club and others who are aren't performing like they're good enough.


Arseblog said today -

His public defence of his players has been a strength down the years, right now it’s a weakness. A humiliating defeat last night brought the same platitudes from the manager when, perhaps, some public acceptance that it’s just not good enough to perform like that could help.

I don’t expect him to crucify individuals but when we lose to a team in the 4th division I don’t want to hear about our effort or that the pitch was slippery. It was that way for both teams. Maybe in private he’ll let the players know what he thinks but it would ease some of the frustration to air some of our dirty laundry in public. It might not be the Arsenal way but the Arsenal way isn’t working right now.

Decent Arseblog post today, as per usual.
What I would hope, is if Wenger is not going to publicly criticize his players then some get dropped on Monday vs. Reading.
I don't entirely know the injury situation- Perhaps Walcott and Arshavin aren't going to be played anymore because they're out the door- but it would be nice if at least Gervinho, Vermaelen ( Is Kos. fit yet?), Ramsey were sat down .
I am still firmly of the belief that our problems not so much start and finish with Wenger, but are of his making . And he's too stubborn for a Plan B, too old to change, too cozy with the board.
That said , this squad needs to be sent a message that what happened was unacceptable and there are consequences.

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Post by Mario on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:20 am

I would like to see the following dropped vs Reading -

Vermaelen - I spoke to Koscielny briefly at the end of the WBA game and he says should be fit for Reading
Gervinho - here's hoping Ivory Coast win the AFCON and go on a 3 month celebratory tour around the country
Ramsey - tries, always tries, but nothing seems to come off at all
Podolski - has barely touched the ball/made an off the ball run in the last month

If Walcott is fit, start him. Start Rosicky and push Cazorla further forward. Giroud comes straight back and starts every game until the end of the season/until he gets injured because despite him not being in RVP's league, our other forward options are woeful and offer next to nothing. Arshavin must have fallen out with Wenger to not even make the bench but I'd rather trust him to come on make something happen than some of the others. Not that he will make anything happen, but still, there's the hope of it.

We have hardly any options which it makes it hard to rotate, especially with human garbage like Chamakh next in line, but I would consider kids like Eisfeld or Yennaris or Gnabry instead. At the very least they would show some movement and liveliness and not just stand there hoping for the best. As Yennaris said on Twitter last night after the game,

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard!"


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Post by Jenks1981 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:39 am

Yennaris will likely get some heat for that you'd think.

I think we need Ox, Walcott and Rosicky in the team, at least there is off the ball running, directness and penetration there. I would genuinley start all three if fit.

I'd drop the same as Mario.

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Post by Chris Chan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:23 am

Walcott and rosicky yes but the ox isn't ready far too inconsistent

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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 am

Mario,

Why do you believe Vermaelen should be dropped??? We have been quite sound defensively as of late. Besides, he was the one who actually gave us a chance to win the game on Tuesday. How does removing our captain from our lineup, and replacing him with a more inconsistent defender, help us in any way?

I agree with everything else you say. I'd add maybe giving Poldi a go at striker

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Post by Chris Chan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 am

TV is more inconsistent than Kos. TV's goals masks a lot of the mistakes he makes.

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Post by Mario on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:52 am



Brett Davis wrote:Mario,

Why do you believe Vermaelen should be dropped??? We have been quite sound defensively as of late. Besides, he was the one who actually gave us a chance to win the game on Tuesday. How does removing our captain from our lineup, and replacing him with a more inconsistent defender, help us in any way?

I agree with everything else you say. I'd add maybe giving Poldi a go at striker


I think defensively his form ever since he returned from that major injury in his 2nd season has steadily declined. I don't have any stats but he seems to be at fault for quite a few goals conceded and since being made captain I think he's struggled and his positional sense doesn't seem to be improving. We've never been the best defensively, well, in the last few years anyway, so I won't be laying the blame on one player when I don't think our coaching is good enough (former players have said we don't do much on that side of things) but for our captain he makes too many mistakes.

I don't expect him to be dropped, especially as Koscielny isn't fully fit yet and nor has his form this season been as good as last season's, but if we had a better squad available I would. I could imagine if he was at Man Utd he would be dropped, for example. And as Chris says I think his goals mask a lot of his errors, as does the spirit he displays.

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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:58 am

Mario Leontiou wrote:

Brett Davis wrote:Mario,

Why do you believe Vermaelen should be dropped??? We have been quite sound defensively as of late. Besides, he was the one who actually gave us a chance to win the game on Tuesday. How does removing our captain from our lineup, and replacing him with a more inconsistent defender, help us in any way?

I agree with everything else you say. I'd add maybe giving Poldi a go at striker


I think defensively his form ever since he returned from that major injury in his 2nd season has steadily declined. I don't have any stats but he seems to be at fault for quite a few goals conceded and since being made captain I think he's struggled and his positional sense doesn't seem to be improving. We've never been the best defensively, well, in the last few years anyway, so I won't be laying the blame on one player when I don't think our coaching is good enough (former players have said we don't do much on that side of things) but for our captain he makes too many mistakes.

I don't expect him to be dropped, especially as Koscielny isn't fully fit yet and nor has his form this season been as good as last season's, but if we had a better squad available I would. I could imagine if he was at Man Utd he would be dropped, for example. And as Chris says I think his goals mask a lot of his errors, as does the spirit he displays.

I definitely agree about the goal scoring part. However, and this is not to say he accounts for he success of our defensive unit himself, we concede an average of 1 goal per game in the league. Whether or not he is the weak link of our back 5 (which I would argue he is not), is another question. I definitely do think that this record is good enough for him to keep his place. Besides, you mention the spirit he displays --if we drop this from a team whose spirit has already been labeled to be "unmotivated" how does this help our cause?

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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Chris Chan wrote:Walcott and rosicky yes but the ox isn't ready far too inconsistent

I agree about The Ox, Chris. Last thing we need is more players out there unable to produce that final ball or have moments of inspiration and ingenuity.

There was also a moment in extra time where Chamakh hit a poor pass to him and he started a riff. Last thing we need is the players getting frustrated with each other when things aren't going right.

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Post by ralph avedikian on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:57 am

Koscielny is a better defender than Vermaelen, so if he is fit, play him. Captain or not, TV is in a really bad patch of form and should be dropped if Kos is fit no doubt.

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