Arsenal vs Swansea

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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:46 am

Michael Schatzky wrote:I'm not even bothered, frankly.
The sad thing is that any criticism you level at our showing today could have been said about many of our particular performances at many points over the last 4-5 years.
This is the team we are.

This is my point exactly.....we have been the same caliber of team for a good few years and still not winning anything and where does it point.....straight at Wenger...he is the one who gets the players,motivates them all of it...and after these years its still not happening...

Blame the fact we played shit...the players etc....still brings us full circle to Wenger....

No shape,no idea,no new tattics..all of it points at Wenger...
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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:50 am

And just to add where is this new idea that had been bleated out by Wenger in the press realises that a new formation of 3-5-2 might come into play......

Nowhere....

It seams like its one of wenger's traits coming out again....all talk and no action...and quite frankly this is the one single thing that really pisses me off about Wenger...

All talk no action....
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Post by Michael Schatzky on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:54 am

Michael Foster wrote:
Michael Schatzky wrote:I'm not even bothered, frankly.
The sad thing is that any criticism you level at our showing today could have been said about many of our particular performances at many points over the last 4-5 years.
This is the team we are.

This is my point exactly.....we have been the same caliber of team for a good few years and still not winning anything and where does it point.....straight at Wenger...he is the one who gets the players,motivates them all of it...and after these years its still not happening...

Blame the fact we played shit...the players etc....still brings us full circle to Wenger....

No shape,no idea,no new tattics..all of it points at Wenger...

I agree. We have had an almost complete turnover of players from 4 years ago, yet the same type of problems exist.
Tactical inflexiblility, weird lineups -Bendtner on the wing, Gervinho through the middle etc.. the team trying hard but getting defended exactly the same way ,which stifles us.
We don't have that World Class(tm) talent to pull one out of the fire for us anymore, so games like this are the result. It only points to one place.....

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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:05 am

The one saving grace in my opinion for Wenger at the moment is we have more simple games coming up....yet simple on paper means nothing...



4 Tue UEFA Champions League A Olympiacos
8 Sat Barclays Premier League H W.B.A.
11 Tue Capital One Cup A Bradford
17 Mon Barclays Premier League A Reading
22 Sat Barclays Premier League A Wigan Athletic
26 Wed Barclays Premier League H West Ham United
29 Sat Barclays Premier League H Newcastle United

This is our next chunk of games....I only realistically see 7 points there in the league based on the way we are playing...a pain in the arse away CL game and anything goes in the cup game...and the way I see it that capital one cup is all we have at picking up a cup this season....and Christmas is little under a month away...a sorry state for a fan of a club of this size to be thinking.....
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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:07 am

And if you want to see something a little crazy today check out the united game on at the mo

7 goals in 34 mins Shocked
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Post by John Foxall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:27 am

Dan Hakim wrote:There are no other managers who can work as successfully as Wenger with Arsenal's financial constraints. I'll reserve judgement on this team, and on Wenger, until the stadium is paid off, the new sponsorship and kit deals kick in, and these players have had a fair amount of time to work together.

Until then, the club is in survival mode.

How do we know that no other manager could do it since we have only had one in this time. This kind of discourse is unhelpful, since it deifies Wenger, who is only human and looking more and more so every day. If he was a man on a local bus, we would say to ourselves: "who is that sad old man that takes the same bus as me every day, he looks do sad and lonely".

Most other sides in the league, including Swansea and a few others above us, would dream of having our financial constraints. It suits A.W. to talk about our constraints although they are insurmountable but he should of course be first and foremost judged by the performances of the team on the pitch. Their performances depend not on financial criteria but on understanding, team play, fitness, tactics, coaching and leadership. They look so, so flat at the moment. He is unable to turn that around but then again we've barely seen an improvement since we last won the title. The one exception was when we came back in the summer of 2007 and a superb understanding and team spirit in a less than perfect team made us the best team in the league for two thirds of the season. Other than he's overseen a team performing as less than the sum of its parts.

We're in such financial difficulties (chuckle) that we are able to debate whether to offer an extremely limited young player completely lacking self-awareness £90,000/week or not. God, what tough times!

Of course we've not yet reached the point where he would risk being sacked but his position has been much too comfortable for years now. No realistic aims, just pointing to clubs above us with more money and saying: it's all down to money. We're doing all we can. Of course it's not. That's such intellectual laziness. A club that condones having Almunia as first-choice keeper for three or four years or starts the season with one genuine striker should be criticised. Or a manager who thinks that having three similar players in midfield will work.

Nothing lasts for ever. Surely even Wenger himself would admit that he's done all he can. (Errrm, not so sure actually!) The conditions for him to succeed were in place when he arrived, he's changing the playing field completely yet can't achieve his own aims. Unless we're happy with mediocrity for years more, there should be a change. We seem to have reached that point before the Spurs game last year yet he bought himself more time. Another mediocre summer transfer window and we're back where we started.

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Post by Jenks1981 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:44 am

Our tactics just dont change, same approach, same tempo, same mistakes, we are dreadfull. The players simply have to grow some balls, they are letting the club down. There is just no passion and no dedication the quality and application of this team is at an all time low under Wenger, afterall, the strength on paper of this squad is better than those who got thumped at Utd last season. Those who say we are one or two players from a top team are miles off...

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Post by John Foxall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:49 am

Jenks1981 wrote:Our tactics just dont change, same approach, same tempo, same mistakes, we are dreadfull. The players simply have to grow some balls, they are letting the club down. There is just no passion and no dedication the quality and application of this team is at an all time low under Wenger, afterall, the strength on paper of this squad is better than those who got thumped at Utd last season. Those who say we are one or two players from a top team are miles off...

That's only ever been a comment that worked on paper.

In reality a team works as a collective, and we are such a poor collective at the moment. Is the team even coached at the moment? That sides seems to have been neglected for years. Wenger's weak point surely. If you listen to people like Tony Adams and Sol Campbell, you understand that the team under Wenger has always been coached defensively by its best players (organisation, communication and shape without the ball). There doesn't appear to be any of that now, we lack any kind of engine in midfield and we have too many players that arrived within the last couple of years for there to be any coherence. I don't think we can particularly criticise the player for their attitude myself. The home support is poor but twas ever thus.

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Post by Jenks1981 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:56 am

John Foxall wrote:
Jenks1981 wrote:Our tactics just dont change, same approach, same tempo, same mistakes, we are dreadfull. The players simply have to grow some balls, they are letting the club down. There is just no passion and no dedication the quality and application of this team is at an all time low under Wenger, afterall, the strength on paper of this squad is better than those who got thumped at Utd last season. Those who say we are one or two players from a top team are miles off...

That's only ever been a comment that worked on paper.

In reality a team works as a collective, and we are such a poor collective at the moment. Is the team even coached at the moment? That sides seems to have been neglected for years. Wenger's weak point surely. If you listen to people like Tony Adams and Sol Campbell, you understand that the team under Wenger has always been coached defensively by its best players (organisation, communication and shape without the ball). There doesn't appear to be any of that now, we lack any kind of engine in midfield and we have too many players that arrived within the last couple of years for there to be any coherence. I don't think we can particularly criticise the player for their attitude myself. The home support is poor but twas ever thus.

I agree with most of that John. But, if its not the attitude and passion thats missing itll be the quality.

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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:25 am

Who would say against us spending a lot of Money in the January window.....

I can think of 5 positions and players we could do with.
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Post by John Foxall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:33 am

Jenks1981 wrote:
John Foxall wrote:
Jenks1981 wrote:Our tactics just dont change, same approach, same tempo, same mistakes, we are dreadfull. The players simply have to grow some balls, they are letting the club down. There is just no passion and no dedication the quality and application of this team is at an all time low under Wenger, afterall, the strength on paper of this squad is better than those who got thumped at Utd last season. Those who say we are one or two players from a top team are miles off...

That's only ever been a comment that worked on paper.

In reality a team works as a collective, and we are such a poor collective at the moment. Is the team even coached at the moment? That sides seems to have been neglected for years. Wenger's weak point surely. If you listen to people like Tony Adams and Sol Campbell, you understand that the team under Wenger has always been coached defensively by its best players (organisation, communication and shape without the ball). There doesn't appear to be any of that now, we lack any kind of engine in midfield and we have too many players that arrived within the last couple of years for there to be any coherence. I don't think we can particularly criticise the player for their attitude myself. The home support is poor but twas ever thus.

I agree with most of that John. But, if its not the attitude and passion thats missing itll be the quality.

Agree, there's plenty that's wrong. And to all of that we can add the atmosphere at home games which will get worse the way things are going. It was never very encouraging for the players.


Last edited by John Foxall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Meshaal on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:39 am

Michael Foster wrote:Who would say against us spending a lot of Money in the January window.....

I can think of 5 positions and players we could do with.

I have been saying that for a while now. I can just not see us (or any club) signing 5 players in January though, but we definitely need to bring in atleast 2 or 3 (and get the other 2 or 3 next summer) - but what we also need to start looking at is a new manager to take over at the end of this season, after Wenger has once again successfully guided us to a top 4 finish.

That is the ideal situation.

Managers worth looking at - Guardiola, Klopp, Low, Blanc and Moyes, among a few others.

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Post by John Foxall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:53 am

Given the lack of magic solutions from player transfers (why are we never able to bring in the right players when we need them?), then we need to concentrate on changing formation in the meantime? The current one offers nothing and is so easy to play against?

The three ideological allies in the midfield of midfield is daft. Give us some complementary players any day.

But yes, prepare for a new manager who might not have to bother with the CL at first. It's a strong possiiblity now, such is our malaise.

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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:03 am

Meshaal wrote:
Michael Foster wrote:Who would say against us spending a lot of Money in the January window.....

I can think of 5 positions and players we could do with.

I have been saying that for a while now. I can just not see us (or any club) signing 5 players in January though, but we definitely need to bring in atleast 2 or 3 (and get the other 2 or 3 next summer) - but what we also need to start looking at is a new manager to take over at the end of this season, after Wenger has once again successfully guided us to a top 4 finish.

That is the ideal situation.

Managers worth looking at - Guardiola, Klopp, Low, Blanc and Moyes, among a few others.

Yep...and starting with keepers....reina is a good possibility...and would be a welcome addition..
A left winger..I don't really care to words extent who..we just need a good left sided winger..
A defensive mid or two...same again..just get in the best we can..not a up and coming one somebody who knows what to do and when to do it..and possibly another decent leftback....

The shopping list will obviously change from person to person...I know of a good few who I would like but that said if it was up to me the first thing I would do is lighten the load with all these bit part players to free up the wage lay out possibilities..
And why the fucking hell do we still have players like squeakyachi and bellendtner on our books?!? Why Wenger why!?!
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Post by Meshaal on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:04 am

One thing I am pretty confident of - even if we finish outside the top 4 this season - the man to get the job after Wenger will inherit a strong squad and financially stable club.

If we can get the right man, with the right additions and some basic work on defending, shape and some belief and hunger, we could easily be back to challenging for titles next season - I do not feel this is an exaggeration.

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Post by jason.mandryk on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:39 am

Any gains from new sponsorship money, etc could be cancelled out by the loss of Champions League football, be mindful of that. Holding out for a spending spree to save us is folly, it rarely happens apart from maybe one player (Arshaving was a timely January signing who contributed immediately and probably was the difference in making the CL).

Also, while the stadium atmosphere is not good, don't be under the illusion that in some nostalgic past, it was incredible. Highbury was not exactly renowned for its amazing vibe, either, as most people who regularly went there would attest. The negativity at the Emirates is not about the stadium or about a deep shift in Arsenal home support - it is a reflection of the rot that has set in at the club in the last couple of years.

Who among us believes that RVP, Song, Cesc, Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Gallas, even Bendtner regret leaving?
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Post by Michael Foster on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Arsene spoke to the BBC last night...



Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger urged the London club to remain united and insisted the side's form would improve.

The Gunners lost 2-0 against Swansea and are 10th in the Premier League - their worst start to a season since Wenger took over 16 years ago.

"We are in this job to turn things around, and I am confident we will [because of] the quality of the players and the spirit we have," said Wenger.

"I believe it is a good chance to stick together and show we're a strong club."

Swansea won Saturday's game at the Emirates courtesy of two late Michu goals and Arsenal were booed off the pitch at the end.

"The quality of our game was not there," added Wenger, whose team have now picked up just six points from the last 18 available.

"It was a bit frustrating because we lacked a bit of decisiveness and creativity. Swansea were more creative, more sharp. It is very frustrating, but it is the truth."

Arsenal are 15 points behind league leaders Manchester United, although they do remain in contention for the positions that would secure them a place in next season's Champions League, trailing fourth-placed Tottenham by five points.

"I am not so much worried about [league] places," said the 63-year-old.

"But I believe what is important is we get the quality of our game back. Then the places change."

And when asked about his future, he added: "You make your assessment at the end of the season, as I said many times."

There were protests by the Black Scarf Movement, a section of Arsenal fans unhappy at the way the club is being run, around the stadium before kick-off but Wenger refused to get drawn into that debate.

"It is more down to shareholders and that is not my job," said the Gunners boss.

"It's difficult to answer that straight away after a game like that, but I believe the support from the board is there to spend the money if we find the players."


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Post by Mario on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:23 pm

^ Arseblog was a good read. I also liked this post by Arse 2 Mouse -



This felt like the end of an era to me, and I said as much straight after the game. The atmosphere had felt strange from the start, and it was obvious what the outcome of anything less than a win would be. I heard the full-time boos, which the BBC described as thunderous, while crossing the bridge on the way back to Arsenal tube. It was only the second time I’ve left before the final whistle in three years of having the season ticket. In the past I’ve joined in with disgruntled chants, but today I couldn’t face it.

I couldn’t face the Black Scarf walk either, despite agreeing with their stated agenda almost in its entirety. Part of the reason is that I’m not hugely keen on the way that the movement’s spokespeople respond to any perceived attacks. I’m sure they get a lot of daft questions, and no doubt plenty of aggression from the more wild-eyed loyalists, but it strikes me that if you’re in the business of winning hearts and minds you need to be a bit less spiky about it.

For instance: I’ve seen a distinction drawn by their leaders between the away fans singing ‘we want our Arsenal back’ and the Black Scarf Movement’s own slogan ‘where has our Arsenal gone?’ You can barely slide a semantic cigarette paper between the two statements, and the former is clearly inspired by the latter, so why so coy? And why so coy on the manager? I would be amazed if you polled those who went on the walk, or visitors to the Black Scarf site, and found less than 75% thought the manager’s position is now up for question. It’s odd to dance around it when so many in the ground are discussing it openly.

I suppose the Black Scarf’s leadership fear being painted purely as Wenger Outists, hence the logical contortions taken to insist the protest was about seating issues, price rises, and all the rest. But they know as well as anyone who goes to the games, or follows debate about Arsenal online, that the fundamental concerns are with the ownership of the club and, yes, whether the manager is capable of mending what appears to be broken with the playing side.

I’m not convinced he can mend it, so I’m not scared to say it’s now legitimate to question Arsene Wenger’s future. In fact I’ve already said so on here and elsewhere. It’s an incredibly sad thing to admit about Arsene Wenger the man, but it’d be ridiculous of me to pretend I don’t have worries about Arsene Wenger the manager. So if you feel that way, I think you should be big enough to say so (politely), and not pretend the mood music is a result of frustrations about safe standing.

A caveat to what I’ve just said: Last season, before the game against Spurs, I’d all but given up on us finishing fourth. In the end we finished 3rd, and I’m not sure there are many managers who could have taken over at the time who would have pulled that recovery off. Right now I probably feel even more sceptical than I did then about the team’s chances of cracking the top four, even with Chelsea struggling again. I know: lol. So, while I concede lightning *could* strike twice, only a madman would suggest building a business plan around it.

My doubts keep coming back to the composition of the squad, and the fact that even at the start of the season it looked unbalanced. This isn’t an injury-ravaged side either – the squad is only Diaby and Sagna short of full strength. Here’s the contradiction, though: On the one hand I feel like we should have spent more, on better players. But on the other it feels hypocritical to say that, and then not admit that a squad that has been assembled at a cost of £75m ought to be able to put up more of a fight at home against a Swansea team that cost just less than £10m. Can’t have it both ways, can I? If buying players is the answer, as I’ve often thought it would be, then why aren’t the ones we’ve bought doing better against Fulham, Norwich, Swansea.

And that’s when it becomes incredibly hard to absolve the manager for what’s happening now. For much of the first half today Swansea looked more like Arsenal than Arsenal did. Or at least how we’ve come to think an Arsenal side should do – tight passing, fast attackers, and a collective work ethic. They deserved to win today, just as they deserved to win at their place last season. Are all their players undiscovered gems we somehow missed? Do they put in more effort because they’re better men? What is happening on the training ground that makes them able to raise their game while ours seems so flat?

On that basis – not that we lost, but that it felt like we were outplayed – you have to ask big questions about how this team has been assembled, trained and motivated. Chance creation remains a huge issue. We had five shots on target today (mostly weak ones) to Swansea’s seven. I had Wojciech Szczesny as our man of the match, and without him they certainly would have scored sooner.

After the Villa game I bemoaned the way too many of our players seem afraid to be the one to make the decisive pass, or to take an opponent on for fear of making a mistake. Today more than half the team looked utterly terrified. Again the player on the ball often elected to abrogate responsibility, by which I mean would choose to slide a pass to the guy next to him, who’d slide it back, each waiting for the other to solve the puzzle somehow. All at treacle slow speed.

Too often, there wasn’t an option on at all. Never was that more clear than when Jenkinson was hustled back towards his own half, stripped of the ball, and Swansea scored their second. Remember when we scored breakaway goals? Now the team doesn’t look like it could counter-attack effectively against a team of snowmen. (Gervinho would probably succumb to frostbite before managing to play a successful cross.)

This flatness, this lack of belief in their own abilities, has to be accounted for by the manager. It’s no good blaming fatigue, or immaturity – what does that mean anyway, when most of the players are plenty experienced? – or whatever vagary of the Mayan calendar means that we implode every November. This is the squad Arsene has built – lopsided, stripped of genuine quality, and with a number of expensive parts left to rust by the wayside.

Earlier this season I argued that although it was impossible to know who was truly to blame for resources at the club going unused without insider information, whoever was stopping that strengthening – let’s call it what it is: spending – was effectively slowly choking the side. To be more specific, I meant that either the majority shareholder – for the board is to all intents and purpose an extension of Stan’s will – or the manager is holding the club back by not adding more/better players with the money we have.

But I can’t hide from the fact that the players Arsene *has* bought are not doing it for him. Maybe they’re simply not good enough. Or maybe it’s the way they’re being prepared. I made the point after Everton away that I couldn’t see the current problems being fixed by coaching or tactics. A commenter – from Tulsa, if I recall correctly – demanded to know why that was. At the time I didn’t reply because, hey, I wasn’t in the mood for running a Reddit Ask Me Anything – but I will now.

Tactics: Since its adoption, you can count on one hand the number of times we haven’t used the 433 formation that suited Cesc so well, even though he is long gone. Talk of switching to 352 has turned out to be the smokescreen most Arsenal watchers immediately recognised it to be. What tactical changes Arsene makes - for example, Ramsey out wide – are tweaks to the established gameplan, rather than major revisions. It feels hugely unlikely that he’s about to try a radically different approach.

Coaching: There was an Opta stat floating around after the loss to Man U that said since the start of last season Arsenal has conceded 18 goals to individual errors - more than any other Premier League team. Let that sink in for a second: *any other Premier League team*. There must have been a fair few conceded since, including Jenkinson’s error today. A number like that must embarrass the coaching staff. To have the players they drill go out and make more mistakes leading to goals than any other team has to be a damning indictment, doesn’t it? Are we buying especially accident-prone players – and if so, what are the scouts doing? – or is there some sort of endemic failure to coach the players we have correctly? In either case, hard to see a miracle cure coming here.

So, what happens now? Almost certainly nothing. So long as there’s still a chance of a golden Champions League egg, the board won’t axe the goose who’s consistently laid it. Nor would I expect Arsene to resign, because he’ll be desperate to fix this somehow. I don’t blame him for that: this would be a horrendous, ignominious end to all that he’s done for the club. And in truth I can’t see much logic in switching mid-season.

Earlier in the week I had a (surprisingly polite) conversation on Twitter about who Arsenal’s next manager might be. The question boiling down to who might come, and might be able to deliver anything like the performance Arsene has, not least in terms of consistent Champions League qualification. Of those we talked about – Moyes, Guardiola, Klopp – only the latter seemed to tick all the right boxes, in terms of playing style, managing with limited resources, and so on. And even if he was interested, which is by no means a certainty, would he move now? Would anyone on our board have have the gumption to even go for him?

I doubt it. We’d likely end up with a Martinez-type appointment. Fine if you only want to play well for a third of the season and get battered for the rest of it. For that reason I think that if change is on the way, and it surely might be, then it may as well wait until the end of this campaign, when succession can at least be approached orderly rather than in the blind panic doing so now would necessitate. In either case I also have deep reservations that the board is set up to conduct that kind of search successfully. Pray to your god that Dick Law isn’t involved.

Whatever happens I hope Arsene does eventually get around to writing that tell-all book he’s threatened to. Because if it does turn out to be that the money simply wasn’t there, and he was sent out year after year to pretend it was, and take the flak accordingly, then those who owned the club, then and now, have done one of its greatest servants an unforgivable disservice. But that’s for another time. Tonight, I can’t shake the feeling that the tide really has turned, and that this is the beginning of the end.

– TDC

http://www.arse2mouse.com/post/36976072277

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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:44 pm

^Great read indeed

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Arsenal vs Swansea - Page 3 Empty Re: Arsenal vs Swansea

Post by Michael Foster on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:25 am

A good read....but no new points raised...

Our club....the one we all stick by thick and thin is really starting to lose the thick end of support...as its all been said so many times 'where is it going wrong?'

It's no matter where anymore its simply how is it going to be fixed...

I have never fully understood why we have never brought in players everybody has wanted...it always seams a case of 'yes we need a striker' 'I brought a defender' or 'yes we need a striker' 'so I got us an unproven one' where has the idea of raiding premiere league clubs gone?? I could think of no end of players I would like to see at arsenal..and yet all we are doing is feeding everybody else.....

Wenger is undoubtedly a fantastic manager....he has proved it time and time again..but everything has a use by date....as its been said in the blog above I think the end is near also....7 stale years of a drastic decline from the days of the invincibles..if we had not had the success of that team would Wenger even still be here....and not only that...surely looking at the team he used to have should be some kind of a benchmark for the future...not selling great players and replacing them with half baked ideas....
All we realistically had to do combined with the likes of cesc,rvp and co was one big transfer per season and we could have 7 amazing players right now and prob still the best of what we had....instead we have been buying shit here and there and basically throwing away money....

No end of transfers we could have linked to seen arrive at arsenal...where are the days of being linked to the likes of robbin,ribery,benzima and a whole host who Wenger had himself said would be a welcome addition....

The board....well to keep it simple....they are a fucking joke,and as for silent Stan...is this the way he is going to have any involvement in the club...if so....fuck off....in my eyes you are not welcome.....

All this self sustainable bollocks is getting on my nerves to....ok we work and we run well....
Worse case problem....we don't get the champions league spot..fail in the cups and drop to 6th or so in the league.....do it once and we might be able to get away with it...do it again and we have problems...not to mention players we have could want out....
It just seams though the board as well as it might seam to them have not really thought out to well the option of failure......


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Arsenal vs Swansea - Page 3 Empty Re: Arsenal vs Swansea

Post by ralph avedikian on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:32 am

Vanig Bostanian wrote:http://arseblog.com/2012/12/arsenal-0-2-swansea-doubts-grow-as-arsenal-fail-to-respond/
That's just brilliant and worth reading

I see nothing as a 'good read' in it. Pure shit.

1- If Wenger DID get Michu for 2m, everyone would rant about how everytime we need a good player we go and get an unproven, cheap replacement. So that argument is 100% bullshit.

2- Wenger tooka huge gamble by going into the season with this midfield? Really? Jack, Arteta, Santi, Tomas, Abou, Ramsey, Coquelin, Frimpong, even Arshavin.. Yeah right we should have bought Modric for 40m to warm the bench. 9 players fighting for 3 places isn't enough yeah.

3- It is because of Wenger that Santi and Arteta can't have a rest? Again, he should have bought Modric for 40m just to have a good option to rest Cazorla, what shit management. Then again, if he did rest them and we don't win the game guess what is the reaction? same old Wenger resting players when he knows he doesn't have good enough replacement..

I didn't even continue reading this shit and I got those 3 points..

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Arsenal vs Swansea - Page 3 Empty Re: Arsenal vs Swansea

Post by Mario on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:18 am

ralph avedikian wrote:
Vanig Bostanian wrote:http://arseblog.com/2012/12/arsenal-0-2-swansea-doubts-grow-as-arsenal-fail-to-respond/
That's just brilliant and worth reading

I see nothing as a 'good read' in it. Pure shit.

1- If Wenger DID get Michu for 2m, everyone would rant about how everytime we need a good player we go and get an unproven, cheap replacement. So that argument is 100% bullshit.

2- Wenger tooka huge gamble by going into the season with this midfield? Really? Jack, Arteta, Santi, Tomas, Abou, Ramsey, Coquelin, Frimpong, even Arshavin.. Yeah right we should have bought Modric for 40m to warm the bench. 9 players fighting for 3 places isn't enough yeah.

3- It is because of Wenger that Santi and Arteta can't have a rest? Again, he should have bought Modric for 40m just to have a good option to rest Cazorla, what shit management. Then again, if he did rest them and we don't win the game guess what is the reaction? same old Wenger resting players when he knows he doesn't have good enough replacement..

I didn't even continue reading this shit and I got those 3 points..


Going into the season, Wilshere was injured, Rosicky was injured, Frimpong was injured (and not good enough), Coquelin is young and meh, Ramsey is meh and Arshavin has hardly ever played in midfield for us. Diaby was the one that he was counting on but look at his injury record. And look at his consistency (or lack thereof) record. We lost Song and replaced him with players we had at the club last season, players who were/are injury prone or not DM's in a season where we sneaked into the top 4 on the last day of the season. Wenger even admitted that he was looking to buy players at the time so how could that not have been a gamble if we went into the season without additions? He admitted himself that Diaby was a gamble that has (shockingly) failed -

"Diaby’s injury record is not good. I was concerned about him, of course. It was a gamble but I was calculating as well that Jack Wilshere was coming back." - after the Chelsea game.


We have an almost fully fit squad now and we can't rotate because we have a lot of average players on the bench or players he doesn't want anymore. Players like Arshavin, who was clearly not in Wenger's plans after sending him on loan last season and is rarely involved or Chamakh who can't even make the bench, even after scoring twice vs Reading, and therefore when we rest Giroud, we play Gervinho as CF. Or when we are chasing a goal like we were at Villa, we ended with a forward line of Gervinho-Arshavin-Ramsey. And when it comes to the midfield we have no natural defensive minded players and for all the intelligence and hard work Arteta shows, that isn't his natural position and it's starting to show now after a very good start to the season.

Who's fault is it that the squad finds itself in this shape? Why do we have to buy Modric for 40M? Why can't we buy players we need at reasonable prices (money we have, I'm not calling for unrealistic signings) and have real competition/variety in the squad and not have players take their spot for granted? Wenger says we are 'jaded' every game now and the reason is because we don't have good enough replacements so how can that be good planning going into the season? If Frimpong was meant to be used, why was he sent on loan as soon as he regained fitness? Why do we have Coquelin on the bench when Arteta is clearly feeling it?

Our GK backups are not good enough, we have one genuine CF at the club and have no natural ball-winning DM, even in the first XI. Outside of Diaby we have no physical midfielders. A lot of fans said this in the summer and commented on it in previous threads, it isn't just with the benefit of hindsight.

You have a point with the Michu statement, if indeed he arrived at Arsenal and flopped, but I think the point he was making was that Wenger used to be able to make those types of brilliant, cheap signings regularly and has maybe lost his touch in that department. He always made mistakes even 10-15 years ago (Malz, Mendez, Stepanovs, Danilevicius) but it made no difference because for the most part he would pull out gems (Anelka, Vieira, Petit, Toure, Ljungberg, Lauren) who made a huge impact. Admittedly that has become a lot harder to do now with every big club having worldwide scouting networks but it is an area we are no longer leaders in. I don't think he was advocating that we should have signed him and Wenger is to blame. But when you have players like Chamakh, Arshavin, Squillaci, Park, Denilson on the books and you see very good players go for low prices then you have to question the manager, who makes the final decisions on transfers (bar maybe Park...), and his ability to maximise resources.


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Arsenal vs Swansea - Page 3 Empty Re: Arsenal vs Swansea

Post by Michael Schatzky on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:38 am

Mario Leontiou wrote:

Our GK backups are not good enough, we have one genuine CF at the club and have no natural ball-winning DM, even in the first XI. Outside of Diaby we have no physical midfielders. A lot of fans said this in the summer and commented on it in previous threads, it isn't just with the benefit of hindsight.



I agree with all of your points Mario.
The one thing I might slightly disagree with is asserting that Diaby is "physical". Even when he did manage to string a number of games together, I always thought he played as the smallest big man I'd seen.
Maybe the "destroyer " DM role is becoming defunct and morphing into a more "holding DM" role -but it was dangerous to rely on Diaby to do even that, with his injury record.
So we basically have 3 midfield players that are Good Enough- Arteta, Santi, Jack, with everyone else being a combination of Not Ready Yet/ Not Good Enough.
We'll see how if Rosicky can once again get back to a high standard of play, but he's not a physical player.
The stupid thing is, that this Diaby situation has been going on for years. In that time SO MANY quality big men have been drafted in to lesser clubs that could do a job at Arsenal. I was joking yesterday on the "Jan transfers " post, but Diame, Diakite, Nzonzi while not "super quality" are good enough.
Diame is doing a better job at West Ham as a stopper/distributer than Song did for us (before Song went assist crazy last year adn added that dimension).
We don't need super quality, we need solid journeyman players who won't make many mistakes.

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Arsenal vs Swansea - Page 3 Empty Re: Arsenal vs Swansea

Post by Mario on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:00 am

"The one thing I might slightly disagree with is asserting that Diaby is "physical". Even when he did manage to string a number of games together, I always thought he played as the smallest big man I'd seen. "


I was actually a bit hesitant when typing out 'physical' because he isn't that type of player but I meant in the sense of his height, his drive from midfield and ability to use his body to beat players and shield the ball from the opposition under pressure.

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