Change in formation?

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Post by Subrat Koirala on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:15 pm

It's become quite obvious over the course of the season that the system of playing 1 target man supported by two wide men and 3 men in the middle is not quite working out. Teams have learned how to limit us and we don't seem to be able to find another solution when times are tough on the pitch. In this light, may be a change in formation with two men up top will work? I think we should give it a try.

4-4-2:
Tried and tested formation, as they call it. But I don't think playing 2 forwards and 2 wide men will make things any better. Our midfield it very very light to play with just 2 men patrolling the center of the park. We may score, but I think the team will be more vulnerable than it is now. Bring in someone like M'Vila, and may be we could think of switching to 4-4-2, but for now, no.

4-3-1-2:
I think this is where we should be looking at. 3 midfielders to stay disciplined in the middle with Santi ahead of them, two of Walcott/Giroud/Gervinho/Podolski up top(hence we have plenty to rotate as well). I trust Sagna and Gibbs to provide the width and hence make us a better force.

I've thought since the beginning of the season if we could switch to 4312, and I'm forced to stress my opinion after the slumber we've fallen into. Throw in your views and if you have any other ideas with you.
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Post by Brett Davis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:32 pm

I think we should stick with the 4-3-3. Our personnel fits the formation, but Wenger has not be playing the right players in the right positions for it to be effective.

If we were to switch to a 2 striker system with an ACM, things would get bogged down through the center even worse so then they already are. If things stay the same then I guess it would be worth a go but I doubt Wenger would make this change

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Post by Michael Foster on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:46 pm

Personally I think a situation of a 4-3-1-2 will be a good option reasons being....

A.defensively we are poor at the moment and with the window coming up a defensive midfielder is the first transfer I would make...we need to get back to defending as a unit and we are crying out for a man to help hold it together in the middle...

Arteta-----??????------jack
-------------santi-------------
----Giroud---podolski----

This is just one option we have for set up...the players are in position for a start and more affective this way....this said a 4-4-2 would be as equally as good as it won't bring the defensive unit into play as much and allows them to just concentrate on doing exactly what they should be....defending....work on this first and slowly introduce the attacking over time..we as far as I can see can almost kiss goodbye to anything this season so why not use the window and use the rest of the season as a building block for the next but this time get it right...the talk of change has to start and it needs to be now....

B.4-4-2 setup is preferred by most teams as simply put it works...if we revert to this I would like to see it more of a 4-1-3-2 system and as I said before having an out and out defensive midfielder will help tighten up the back line...an attacking 5 should be affective on its own if and only if we have players in favoured positions....

C.the shape and player usability in any given game,I almost every game scream at watching us hold no shape what so ever and players nowhere to be seen if defending or attacking....now Gervinho in the Bradford game was slated for having a very bad game,he ran and worked his arse off for the cause and blind or ignorance being called he got into some blinding positions laying off balls to people that simply put 'nowhere to be seen' now you might argue that his passes were misplaced and so on I have watched the full game again and counted 6 chances of him laying in balls to the edge of the area with our attacking players to concerned on the defending aspect..by no means am I defending Gervinho by a long way..but I will argue that he was at most busy on that front line it look as tho he was trying to lead it by himself...put it this way how many times did we used to see robin get fucked off with the lack of support??..quite regular.....and this all comes down to player positioning and rolls...santi's game for instance is going to shit at the moment because he is having to help track back...this was not the case in the first few games as everyone was doing what was needed....and to be honest...fuck the scorelines we are not banging in 3-4-5 per game...get back to this early logic we implemented and keep it that way...I would rather us score a couple here and there then let in goals from teams of the caliber of Bradford and co....fuck what the press says of 'oh without robin they lack it' I could not give a rats arse what the press thinks...but I do at the look of it think its having an effect on Wenger....we defensively were cracking in the early games..all the talk of lack of goals came and Wenger shifts it all about....

D.dead wood...
Get rid......they offer us absolutely nothing,nothing at all.....no off the bench match winners to change it around when it hits the nitty gritty time in a match...simply replace them with a higher caliber...the funds are there or so it would seam...this is another area I would work on...forget strictly working on transfers for the first team but build on having a dynamic and strong bench...something we can fall back on...a plan B if you like...
Wenger has to admit to himself and to the board it is what we need and its how its going to be done....its what I would do....we can all see the bench offers us zero..time to change all that.....I see no one there that can offer a change in formation to help us control or change the outcome of a game nor does anyone offer us an ability to swap a player injured or sub to sit within a set formation...



Formation will have to change and find what works not necessarly for our players but what works full stop..if those players fit it fine...if they don't...then have to go....sir Alex has made this his priority over the years you can see it by the way he buys his players..he signs like for like.....its what we should have done when we started off loading the unbeaten.....
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Post by Michael Schatzky on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:52 am

I like your points, Michael Foster ^.


A change in formation might help, but we need more direct play.
WE can't score. This team doesn't know how to play together.

Whether you achieve this with a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 is secondary.

This tippy tappy ,lethargic ,slow horizontal passing, cross it to no one- walk it into the net stuff ( which Gervinho even failed to do) -is bollocks.

In my opinion it is the end result of faulty ,unintelligent training and tactics maintained by Wenger ,who is determined to play only one style of game ,even when we have long been shorn of the quality of player (Cesc) who the 4-3-3 is suited for.

Barca have Messi, Cesc ,Xavi , Inesta etc. Imagine us setting up along the 18 yd box with those players -OF COURSE we would fucking score.

An article in the Guardian quotes the Bradford City captain as stating that Torquay- FUCKING TORQUAY- gave them more problems than we did. We didn't get a direct shot on their keeper until the 70th minute.

side note: Gervinho's strengths: busy, gets into good positions.
weaknesses: fucks everything up Wink

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Post by ralph avedikian on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:03 am

I don't think a 4-3-1-2 will do us any good. There is no place for our wingers for one, which we have a lot (although poor and inconsistent), but where would you fit : Gervinho, Theo, Ox, Arshavin..

I personally do not think the formation is the problem, it is just that the tempo to our play is way way way too slow and a change in formation won't change that. We need to pass the ball with purpose and quickly.

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Post by pwoodman1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 pm

[quote="Michael Foster"]Personally I think a situation of a 4-3-1-2 will be a good option reasons being....

A.defensively we are poor at the moment and with the window coming up a defensive midfielder is the first transfer I would make...we need to get back to defending as a unit and we are crying out for a man to help hold it together in the middle...

Arteta-----??????------jack
-------------santi-------------
----Giroud---podolski----

This is just one option we have for set up...the players are in position for a start and more affective this way....this said a 4-4-2 would be as equally as good as it won't bring the defensive unit into play as much and allows them to just concentrate on doing exactly what they should be....defending....work on this first and slowly introduce the attacking over time..we as far as I can see can almost kiss goodbye to anythiwindow and use the rest of the season as a building block for the next but this time get it right...the talk of change has to start and it needs to be now....

TV could fill the gap at DM? It would suit his game and if he made the inevitable slip up 2 CBs would be behind him

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Post by Michael Foster on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:21 am

[quote="pwoodman1"]
Michael Foster wrote:Personally I think a situation of a 4-3-1-2 will be a good option reasons being....

A.defensively we are poor at the moment and with the window coming up a defensive midfielder is the first transfer I would make...we need to get back to defending as a unit and we are crying out for a man to help hold it together in the middle...

Arteta-----??????------jack
-------------santi-------------
----Giroud---podolski----

This is just one option we have for set up...the players are in position for a start and more affective this way....this said a 4-4-2 would be as equally as good as it won't bring the defensive unit into play as much and allows them to just concentrate on doing exactly what they should be....defending....work on this first and slowly introduce the attacking over time..we as far as I can see can almost kiss goodbye to anythiwindow and use the rest of the season as a building block for the next but this time get it right...the talk of change has to start and it needs to be now....

TV could fill the gap at DM? It would suit his game and if he made the inevitable slip up 2 CBs would be behind him


I have often wondered if TV could do that job and I think he could....a central 3 of kos,mert,TV....looks good on paper....
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Post by Jenks1981 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:27 am

Alas the DM situation rears its ugly head yet again...we so badly need a genuine player of this ilk, and someone who doesnt give a fuck and will shout at anyone to boot, I dont think they are out there...Claude Makelele we so need you, for a start!

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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:52 am

Jenks1981 wrote:Alas the DM situation rears its ugly head yet again...we so badly need a genuine player of this ilk, and someone who doesnt give a fuck and will shout at anyone to boot, I dont think they are out there...Claude Makelele we so need you, for a start!

I seriously think Arsene should bring in Yann M'Vila, seems like just what we need to me.

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Post by Jenks1981 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:01 am

Hisham El Mawan wrote:
Jenks1981 wrote:Alas the DM situation rears its ugly head yet again...we so badly need a genuine player of this ilk, and someone who doesnt give a fuck and will shout at anyone to boot, I dont think they are out there...Claude Makelele we so need you, for a start!

I seriously think Arsene should bring in Yann M'Vila, seems like just what we need to me.

He has got pretty well known attitude problems now though Hisham, I really think if Wenger wanted him he would already be here, but I guess I could be wrong, and if his attitude actually isnt a problem then maybe we see him in January, but I really dont think we will.

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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:03 am

Jenks1981 wrote:
Hisham El Mawan wrote:
Jenks1981 wrote:Alas the DM situation rears its ugly head yet again...we so badly need a genuine player of this ilk, and someone who doesnt give a fuck and will shout at anyone to boot, I dont think they are out there...Claude Makelele we so need you, for a start!

I seriously think Arsene should bring in Yann M'Vila, seems like just what we need to me.

He has got pretty well known attitude problems now though Hisham, I really think if Wenger wanted him he would already be here, but I guess I could be wrong, and if his attitude actually isnt a problem then maybe we see him in January, but I really dont think we will.

Yeah the attitude problem is a downside, and if Wenger doesn't move for him, that will probably be the reason. But I think if M'Vila cools it with the foolish behavior, he could actually be a great signing. I don't know, we'll see what happens.

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Post by Meshaal on Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:58 am

We don't have a thread for our next game yet, but if Wenger can motivate the team enough to pick up 3 points on Monday (?) - we could climb up to 4th place (at best) and 6th (at the very least).

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Post by Jenks1981 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:35 am

League standings at this point if 4th or 6th after a win wont be fair, we deserve to be lower, we've been dreadfull.

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Post by Meshaal on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:40 am

Jenks1981 wrote:League standings at this point if 4th or 6th after a win wont be fair, we deserve to be lower, we've been dreadfull.

I agree with that.

However, what I was getting at though that as abysmal as we have been this season, other than the top 2, the rest have been pretty mediocre as well. We are not as far away from the "magic" top 4 spot as some / the media would have us all believe.

Finish in the top 4, make the right signings in the January transfer window and then think about Wenger's future at the club - not before that.

This isn't aimed at anyone on here in particular - but the general doom and gloom surrounding the club at the moment.

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Post by Meshaal on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:36 am

A win tomorrow puts us up in 5th place - 2 points from 3rd and 4th and 9 points from 2nd spot with 21 games to go.

Quite a strange season?

A couple of decent signings in January and we have a shot at 2nd though we wouldn't be challenging for the title in any shape or form - it would be a good return.

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Post by Hisham El Mawan on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:39 am

Meshaal wrote:A win tomorrow puts us up in 5th place - 2 points from 3rd and 4th and 9 points from 2nd spot with 21 games to go.

Quite a strange season?

A couple of decent signings in January and we have a shot at 2nd though we wouldn't be challenging for the title in any shape or form - it would be a good return.

But then again, 2nd would be an improvement on last year, which was an improvement on the season before when we had Fabregas and Nasri. Not saying that means anything, but it would be curious.

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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:08 pm

We can't get second. I can't see us knocking the Manchester sides from the top 2 spots. Third, if we buy and the team starts to gel and actually give a shit, is the most we can achieve.

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Post by Jenks1981 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Dreamers! 4th at very best, dont deserve it so far though...probs 5/6 for me.

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Post by Mike York on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:47 pm

The past 3 or 4 seasons I have a few pessimistic mates who has sworn we'll finish outside the top four. But we never do. Then they act all happy as if they'd never doubted and lost faith in the team. It is win-win for the miserable fans as if we do well they can be happy, if we don't then they can moan more. I'll keep faith we will get 4th spot before the end of the season until I see different. Can't see us getting higher than 4th unless Chelsea have a royal fuck-up.
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Post by Meshaal on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:10 am

Chelsea, Sp*rs and even City are all more than capable of fuck ups.

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Post by Vanig Bostanian on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:13 am

So are we (we're already doing that)

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