Racism in the English game...

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Post by Joey Schwab on Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:53 am

How prevalent is it? Obviously the Terry/Suarez incidents and now the Adeyemi abuse have brought this issue to the forefront. Is this truly still a widespread issue or have the actions of a few idiots caused the problem to be overemphasized? I would like to think the latter, but reading some Liverpool message boards there is some truly cringeworthy stuff being written in regards to what's been happening, particularly at Anfield. The abuse of Adeyemi and subsequent reactions by Liverpool fans has been pretty awful, in my opinion. I wonder, is this reflective of the average football supporter's response if it were their club?

Is this a regional issue? A club issue? A few moronic individuals? Or is it really something that is still prevalent in the culture of English football?
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Post by Mario on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:12 am

Racism has never disappeared from football and even less so from society. It never will, unfortunately. But in England we've done very well in removing the majority from the game. You won't get crowds making monkey chants like you see at the El Clasico, but you may get 1 idiot, as we saw with Adeyemi. It's going to happen but recently it's come one after the other. There has been racist banning orders every year in the Premier League, but they don't get media attention unless they're caught on camera. As has happened recently and I seem to remember once with Dwight Yorke when he was at Blackburn.

Crowds, especially in cities, have become more family orientated and multi-cultural and that also helps. Arsenal must have the most diverse fan base in England. Funnily enough, Liverpool also do. They have a large Asian fan base.

But that's just outwards racism. There's no way of telling on what people truly feel on the inside and what they say behind closed doors. But what we've seen from the Suarez/Evra case is that a) football rivalry and tribal mentality takes over in sensitive issues and b) ignorance is still thriving. I don't think people really understand racism and maybe that's no surprise when taking into account where a large percentage of people get their news and education from. And then some people like to act big and get behind a computer and say some vile things that they would never say in person. We've all seen YouTube comments... I was speaking to someone last week who said,

"I think it's gone too far now, it's all PC. Do you know who's more racist? Black people. Because they can say things to other black people that white people can't."

... and other things along that line, all arguments I've heard before. She was a Liverpool fan (...) and although she did think Suarez should be punished if said anything racial, that also it was being made a big fuss of. However, what I got from talking to her, a lady in her 40's/50's, was that she (probably) wasn't racist. She (probably) didn't feel less of black or brown or yellow people. But there was an ignorance there and the basis of some of her argument was nonsense she read from the Sun. I know this because there was a mention of this old classic which came out a few years ago in the paper,

'Kids can't even sing baa-baa black sheep anymore in case it offends, it's ridiculous'

... it scares people. It creates an 'us vs them' mentality, like we've been seeing created in Western nations towards Muslims. And when big cases pop up, throw it all into a melting pot, throw in Twitter and it's 140 characters and Facebook, throw in Patrice Evra's face, and we get some real eye-opening and at times quite tragic results.

I've veered a bit off course here.

As for Arsenal, I would hope we didn't react the way that Liverpool have over the Suarez situation. I would hope the club and the fans show more class. But you never know, imagine it was RVP?

As for the fans, I've been to so many games over the years that it would be hard to remember everything but I think we are very good. But there are still a minority that are anti-Semitic. Last week against QPR I saw about 4-5 guys singing the "running round Tottenham" song, everyone around them felt a bit embarrassed, they stopped after 10-15 seconds. Tbh, it was probably the 1st time I've heard that song at a home game for a very long time, if at all (can't be too sure). Away though, you hear it. I've heard a few people over the years hiss, which is pretty sickening. Those were also outside the ground in away games.

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Post by Callum Hind on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:15 am

Joey - can you give a link to the LFC forums where you've read that stuff? I'd be interested to read it.

I'd largely agree with Mario. I haven't seen much racism in about 15 years of going to football games. The exceptions would be the anti-semtic stuff around the north london derby, although I've not heard anything worse than the "running round Tottenham" song. I would say the Adebayor/Elephants song is definitely racist as well though.
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Post by Durrell on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:01 am

Joey Schwab wrote:
Is this a regional issue? A club issue? A few moronic individuals? Or is it really something that is still prevalent in the culture of English football?

I've not known English football culture to be as openly racist as other countries. Spain for example pretty much allowed Luis Aragones to say racist things about Thierry Henry, and still keep his job for another 4 years. Monkey chants are also fairly common there as well.
Recent incidents are more about individuals being twats than anything else. Even the Liverpool fans taking the opportunity to express their racist views on the internet are a minority. There are many more fans quite rightly not on the internet having to prove they aren't racist.
That being said, Liverpool have handled the whole affair with the sensitivity of a gang rape. It's one thing to lie in court to try and protect your star player, but after knowingly lying in court, actively and publicly condoning racism, and trying to make out that the racial abuse victim is lying in a desperate attempt to make your evidence seem credible is another.
The only people who come out of the Liverpool thing with anything positive from it are Hicks and Gillet, who sold up just in time before the shit hit the fan and they wouldn't have been able to give the club away.
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Post by Jonathan Prendergast on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:23 am

Reducing racism has come a long way in the past couple of decades. I am optimistic in time, through generations, it will one day be a thing of the past.

Certainly in more urban centres in Australia, being racist is really to one's own detrminent. It holds people back.
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Post by Joey Schwab on Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:06 pm

I think it's interesting to see true colors come out in situations like this.

Callum - the threads were on the redandwhitekop forums. The way they defended Suarez, defended their fans actions, and criticized Adeyemi for reacting how he did.

To be fair, though, there were also plenty of level headed and empathetic comments - but still more questionable ones than you would hope.

I liked this gem from last night, as if it was the same situation at all in any universe

"Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the Professional Footballers Association, said he had spoken to Adeyemi about the incident. ''We can confirm that he was the victim of racist abuse towards the end of the Liverpool v Oldham FA Cup tie last Friday evening," Taylor said. "This abuse came from a spectator sitting in the Kop section of the ground.

''Tom has given a full witness statement to the Merseyside Police regarding the incident and will continue to assist the police fully in their enquiries."


Where was his support for Suarez? Fucking prick.
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Post by Sami Rockfeller on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:28 pm

What kind of punishment is inflicted if a spectator is found guilty of racism?
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Post by Joey Schwab on Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:01 am

Sami Rockfeller wrote:What kind of punishment is inflicted if a spectator is found guilty of racism?

Apparently Liverpool have said he will get a lifetime ban if found guilty. Not sure if that applies to all football grounds or just Anfield?
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Post by Dan Hakim on Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:31 am

Also, this:

Louis Saha was subjected to foul-mouthed racial abuse on Twitter, it has emerged.


GettyImages
Louis Saha told his Twitter followers that a full investigation is taking place
• Man charged over Collymore abuse

Saha, who plays for Everton, was told "go back to France ya f****** n*****" after the account of a fan was allegedly accessed without permission.

It emerged on the day politicians called for an inquiry into racism in football, claiming the Football Association and individual clubs were "dragging their feet" over the issue.

Saha, 33, retweeted the offensive message, received on January 4, and added his own comment in reply, saying: "Don't attached (sic) urself with the club. U disgrace."

The account that sent the message has now been deleted and Saha later updated his 80,000 Twitter followers telling them an investigation was carried out and the offensive tweet was sent without the user's authorisation by a work colleague.

Saha also said the abuser had been suspended from his job. A spokesman for Everton said officials and police were aware of the incident and a "thorough and proper" investigation was taking place.

Race rows have plagued the game in recent weeks, with England captain John Terry accused of racially abusing QPR defender Anton Ferdinand - a claim he strenuously denies - and Liverpool's Uruguayan star Luis Suarez receiving an eight-match ban for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra.

On Friday Oldham defender Tom Adeyemi broke down in tears after apparently being subjected to racist abuse from a supporter in the stands at Anfield during an FA Cup clash with Liverpool.

A 20-year-old man was arrested and bailed for allegedly racially abusing the player at the match.

Mike Hancock, Liberal Democrat MP for Portsmouth South and a member of the All-Party Football Group, said on Monday: "An inquiry will be welcome, but it has to have real teeth. The abuse is completely unacceptable."

From espnsoccernet.
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Post by janelle.noel on Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:07 pm

They just had on Fox Soccer "Classic Matches" with Henry's hattrick in last game at Highbury. Anyway, the ref was Uriah Rennie. Remember him? How much do you guys think the lack of colored refs or even coaches helps to keep racism alive?

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Post by Mario on Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:18 pm

Uriah Rennie probably didn't help as he was terrible! But no seriously, I think it's a decent point.

I do think the English game could benefit from more black and Asian officials and coaches. Maybe the 'Rooney Rule' could help get some foot in the doors and receive the chance to put forward their credentials. Because at the moment it's always the same names being linked to a vacant manager's job and no one benefits from the same failed managers getting opportunities, keep a team up, struggle, get sacked, find a new job, repeat.

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Post by Christopher Flanagan on Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:27 am

The lack of black managers is an absolute disgrace. It needs addressing but it seems to be being swept under the carpet in the hope it'll sort itself out.
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Post by Zaid Derweesh on Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:32 pm

On this topic....

The Adebayor song. Singing that an African man washes elephants. That's surely racist, no? And yet Arsenal fans still sing it?

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Post by Mario on Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:28 pm

Zaid Derweesh wrote:

The Adebayor song. Singing that an African man washes elephants. That's surely racist, no? And yet Arsenal fans still sing it?


Some do, which is stupid. a) Because it's stupid and b) it's a song they stole from Tottenham fans who used it to abuse a then Arsenal player.

That song isn't sung by that many people, though. I haven't been to the last few NLD's so maybe those who have can tell me how often and how many people sing it, maybe I'm mistaken, but I very rarely hear it at grounds. I've seen it more on FB statuses than anywhere else.

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Post by kdunn on Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:03 am

Mario you're original response to this topic is probably the most level headed, objective, and accurate description of racism in football. I was gonna contribute but you covered all of it

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Post by janelle.noel on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:50 am

Man being charged in Newcastle in connection with posting racist comments as Cisse is signed

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Post by Michael Foster on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:20 am

What's happened with the terry incident?? Been nothing in the news about it for a while now..did I miss it was it cleared up??
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Post by Samritpal Singh on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:42 am

Racism in the English game... Lol13

The Sun headline. Disgraceful.
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Post by Michael Foster on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:45 am

Samritpal Singh wrote:Racism in the English game... Lol13

The Sun headline. Disgraceful.

Yer its to do with the last outing they had and the awfull white suits they were wearing....
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Post by Joey Schwab on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:32 am

That is quite a stretch...
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Post by Michael Foster on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:55 am

Joey Schwab wrote:That is quite a stretch...

Yer and people rip into arsenal about 6 years....
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Post by janelle.noel on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:31 am

Bullet sent to Anton Ferdinand????

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Post by Samritpal Singh on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:36 am

janelle.noel wrote:Bullet sent to Anton Ferdinand????

Really? Where you heard this?
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Post by janelle.noel on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:57 am

Samritpal Singh wrote:
janelle.noel wrote:Bullet sent to Anton Ferdinand????

Really? Where you heard this?

SkySports News

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Post by Samritpal Singh on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:39 am

janelle.noel wrote:
Samritpal Singh wrote:
janelle.noel wrote:Bullet sent to Anton Ferdinand????

Really? Where you heard this?

SkySports News

It's all over Twitter now. Unbelievable!
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